pramox wormer

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teabiscuit

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I just wormed my 29 year old gelding last week with pramox wormer, he's a bit frail now so I was a bit agog to read today on another forum how pramox is giving their horses colic and runny tummies.

My gelding hasn't had a bad reaction, but for considering what to worm him with next time, does anyone know why pramox would make them colicky and runny?


thanks
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My cob reacted terribly to Pramox- the farrier still talks about the projectile diahorria (sic) with tones of awe
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He was very wormy when i got him but his worm count done 6 months before the Pramox was ok.
 
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My cob reacted terribly to Pramox- the farrier still talks about the projectile diahorria (sic) with tones of awe
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He was very wormy when i got him but his worm count done 6 months before the Pramox was ok.

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oh bugger
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i feel a bit alarmed now, do you think it's a heavy worm burden being killed off at once thing?

it'd be useful to know, as he's gone poor, and the vet reckons he's losing protein and maybe worms are causing it

if it's not worms it's something else, maybe more horrid to contemplate
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My horse was wormed with Equest Pramox last autumn with no problems, and she had never colicked after worming in the 4 years we had her. She then had standard Equest in January and had bad spasmodic colic. So this spring I thought I would use Equimax as opposed to Equest Pramox. Again she had bad colic. Both of these episodes were flatulent and resolved with an injection of Buscopan and bute, and typically an out of hours visit from the vet.

So actually, Pramox was the only one of the three that was OK, although I don't know what is causing the colic, it's a new one, so I'm not in a hurry to use Pramox again or any other wormer. I am going to do worm counts and take it from there.
 
Can I ask, how long after worming do problems typically happen if it is linked to the wormer? I'm concerned as a horse on my yard has come down with colic, 5 days after being wormed. There's a suggestion it may be a result of worming causing redworms to die off- in which case I'm obviously concerned about my horses and whether they need specific treatment. However there are other possible causes- so can anyone let me know how long after worming problems usually happen, if they are going to?
 
OK, well after Equest in January I think it was about 3 days, but the second time, after Equimax, my mare colicked the next day.

This is a horse who is wormed 4 times a year with season-specific products according to the yard worming programme, so she shouldn't have had a worm burden unless she had developed resistance, although the brand used at our yard alternates between Equest/Pramox and Equimax.
 
Thanks for that
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very useful.
Does anyone have any experience of problems as long as 5 days after worming?
 
hmm, not sure about that, but just be warned that fecal egg counts tell you jack sh*t about tape worm... you need a blood test to know about that...
 
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She then had standard Equest in January and had bad spasmodic colic.

My sisters pony had spasmodic colic after being wormed with Equest on two separate occasions. Doubt it was due to any worms passing because worm counts had always been negative. Equest is generally a potent wormer and I think the mare just developed a sensitivity to it.
I expect the paramox will be even pontent-er (sp?) and wouldn't use it on any of mine.
As for a wormer taking 5 days to cause any ill effects I'm not sure. Ours colic-ed after around 24-48 hours of being wormed. Luckily on both occasions we were at the yard!
 
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hmm, not sure about that, but just be warned that fecal egg counts tell you jack sh*t about tape worm... you need a blood test to know about that...

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Yes you're right. My plan for next time around is a fecal egg count, blood test, and 5-day Panacur Guard for encysted redworm. Hope this will be a gentler approach (if expensive).
 
I used Equest in the winter and Pramox in the spring on 4 horses with no problems. I do a fecal egg count every summer though and it has always come back in the low to nothing range.
 
I wormed my 2 with Equest Pramox about a month ago. The 5 yo ISH was fine; the 35 yo TBx mare was far from fine. About 4 to 5 days afterwards, she started lying down a lot, then started rolling a lot - it looked like 'normal' rolling but she was doing it all the time. Then 3 days later, she went off her food for about 24 hours. I VERY nearly pts cos I thought it was her age, but then she suddenly perked up & is now 100% again and greedy as ever. (We were in communication with the vet - we didn't just leave her.)

She was wormed again 10 days ago by the vet with something different cos she banged her head & it got fly/maggot eggs on it (I swear she's not neglected - the wound was found within 12 hours despite the fact that she's woolly from Cushings & doesn't like being fussed over & the eggs hatched out really quickly cos it was a very warm day), & this didn't upset her at all.

I wormed with 'normal' equest in winter & will do so again in summer, but will ask the vet before I use pramox again in autumn as I don't want to finish the old girl off.
 
I had a pony mildly colic after pramox. Was literally within hours, but it was the first time he'd been wormed in years. Vet came, loked over the door and said "pramox? it'll live..."

I had been advised to use it as a first wormer, and was told it was milder than P. Guard.

I still use it and havent had any problems since. I think it may just affect those who have a particular overburden of worms. Ten horses on a yard can be wormed for ten years on the same programme, but will all have different worm couts.
 
thanks so much for all the information.

i wormed him last monday, so we're still not quite out of the woods if reactions are occuring up to 5 days after worming so fingers crossed he will be ok!

i know panacur guard can make them colic if the worm burden is big, is it caused by the migration of encysted worms to replace the worms killed off?

i wondered if this was the same for pramox?
 
Actually if the worm burden is big or you suspect it may be, then Panacur Guard is what a vet would recommend as you give it over 5 days and it causes a gradual die-off and less likelihood of an impaction. I was recommended to use Equest a month later, after Panacur Guard, when I first got my mare, as there is some resistance to PG.

Worming a horse that may have a high worm burden with a strong wormer like Equest/Pramox could cause an impaction, which happened a few years back on our yard. The horse was found dead in the field. The vet did a PM and she had a massive worm impaction. Very nasty
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Tamz, it's a bit more complicated in this case. I've had this horse 28 years and he's always been wormed regulary etc so i'd be amazed if he had a large worm burden, but i'm paranoid i guess, these things can happen?

the protein loss isn't because of his liver, that leaves kidneys (unlikely) or diestive problems (worms or something more sinister)

ermmm so i'm half wishing it's worms in a way
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not likely though.

and I am busy making sure it isn't worms. vet told me to worm with ivermectin at 1.5 x dose in a fortnight too, so if he has worms after that too, then they're tough cookies
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OMG 1.5x dose of ivermectin 3 weeks after Pramox for a 29 year old horse who isn't well - is your vet sure that's a good idea? Have you had a worm count?

I would be getting a second opinion on that.

As an aside, I took some advice on how I could prevent a future colic attack at worming time and NAF recommended Synbiozyme given for a week or two either side of worming. You might email NAF, they are very helpful. I would be especially careful giving anything to an old horse who is ailing though without veterinary advice.
 
well he didn't advise pramox, i just thought it was a different drug to ivermectin which i always worm him with so worth a try

then i read about it causing colic!

he hasn't coliced or shown any signs of colicking, i was curious (and still am) as to what caused the colic after pramox, so I asked on here
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Worm counts-the amount of pooh they test is tiny. worms would have to be constantly producing the same population all the time to allow it to become distributed fully throughout all pooh, all the time, which would make the test worth it.
not convinced by the science behind worm counts. my vet didn't suggest it either.

Ivermectin has a huge safety margine, you need huge amounts to OD a horse
i gave a 600kg tube to a 2 month old welsh cob foal by accident (the ring slipped) - she'd have needed an awful lot more for it to be dangerous even to a foal.

my vet is ace, i have got a lot of faith in him, built up over years of dealing with him
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if it is anything to do with the wormer it would of reacted with in 24 hrs. the sound effects sound to me like a heavy worm burden. in stead of pumping wormers in to him have faceal egg count done if he has know worms well dont worm him other wise if he has they will advice you on what wormer o use!
 
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