Prascend and side effects? (Also in NL)

[Fruitcake]

I posted a few weeks ago about the horrible reaction that my Sec A had to Prascend. (He was initially put on 1 tablet- rather large dose for small pony and had ataxia and was trembling dreadfully). He's now on 1/4 tablet daily and initially seemed fine. I've noticed, however, that he just doesn't seem himself. He seems a bit down. Perhaps if you didn't know him, you wouldn't notice it but he's usually such a sparky, cheeky pony and you know how you know your own horses.

I've read that depression is another side effect of Prascend. I'm waiting for the vet to call back to talk it over with him but I'm really tempted to take him off the Prascend. The cure seems worse than the illness (at least at this stage- he wasn't actually showing any symptoms and was only tested as he's been prone to laminitis and we thought it might be an idea- his ACTH wasn't that high- only 54). He's only 12. Obviously I can't see into the future but I hate seeing him down.

Does anyone have any experiences of side effects with Prascend and does anyone have a pony with Cushings not on Prascend?

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Zuzzie]

Well, I think its quite possible for some owners to be obvlious to the fact that their horse or pony has Cushings, mainly because they put the symptoms down to old age - its only when they start growing thick curly coats that the penny drops. They probably have the condition for some years before anything is actually done. In your case, even though your pony has a low ACTH level, I would still continue with the Prascend because the danger of laminitis is the overriding concern. Maybe you could discuss the dosage with your Vet. When the drug was called Pergolide you could buy 250mg tablets and cut them up with a pill cutter. I'm not sure if you could buy Prascend and do the same - or even if that is an option with your Pony. You need to discuss it with your vet.
My old 15hh gelding was on 250mg for years.

 

[SizzlerB]

Hi Fiona

My mare was diagnosed last August and started on 1mg of Peroglide - she had terrible side effects of depression; it broke my heart. I kept in touch with my vet througout and eventually he advised me to stop the tablets for 4-5 days, then start them off at half the doseage. This did the trick and she has remained on half a tablet since.

I would speak to your vet - any understanding vet will be happy to answer questions; mine was great! Via e mail and telephone!

Good luck x

 

[Zargon_91]

Hi there, I had my old boy PTS a few months ago as he had a very aggressive form of cushings- he had these pergolide depressions regularly though- I took part in a trial with Dodson and horrell for herbal support for the hormone levels. It actually really helped him and might be worth looking at with yours as he is really very young for cushings- he was on chaste tree berries. They are usually used to help hormonal mares but seemed to settle my boy- hope that's a help

 

[Fruitcake]

Thanks for the replies. I'd tried the stopping and restarting on a lower dose but even on 1/4 tablet, he was really depressed. Spoke to the vet and he aggreed that it would be best to take him off the Prascend and retest next summer to monitor the ACTH levels. I can't believe the change in him! He's back to his normal self!

I've started him on C-Aid by Global Herbs. Apparently it has Agnus Castus (which I think is Chaste berries) in it. Obviously it's early days to see whether or not it makes a difference but I thought worth a try.

Zargon- Do you know if D&H are still running the trial? Sounds interesting.

 

[popularfurball]

My pony too had an adverse reaction - rubbing face and tail til they bled - joints swelled up etc - she has a lot of allergies and she reacted to tablets.

I wonder about having pergolide prescribed as if the prascend doesnt meet needs you can have perg prescribed i think - and the come in dog sized amounts so you would be able to grade it better when building up. we are blood testing in three months to see if there are any changes

 

[Bringingonbaby]

I have a 9 year old shettie that was diagnosed as a frost lamanitic - then after bloods was diagnosed as a cushinoid and Pergolide, at a dose of 1/2 tablet a day. Deep deep depression and loss of appetite followed, but sound and happy to move about. Careful management helped - but this deep depression broke my heart. I watch the pony like a hawk and I have to say that the chronic lameness that I see does not appear to come from her lamanitic feeet - it is like her muscles have locked, like a mini azotoria bout. I do a lot of massage on my other two monsters and have started massaging her - and she is really tight in the back around her kidneys. Has anyone else experienced this - is it a side effect of pergolide ? Just starting her on Bowen to see if that helps, but I am a little concerned. Any ideas anyone ?

 

[Fruitcake]

It sounds as though it could be similar to the reaction that my pony had. When he was originally started on the Prascend, he was given 1 tablet a day. (He's a Sec A). He had terrible ataxia- trembling and he was unwilling to move about (particularly inside where it was more dimly lit) but it didn't seem like lameness as such- more like he didn't know where his feet were and that his limbs seemed stiff. He too was really depressed- so not like the usual cheeky pony that he is. Have you spoken to your vet about it? My vet wasn't convinced about the side effects at first. He reduced his dose to half a tablet for a couple of months and this solved the ataxia but he was still really depressed so I spoke to the vet again. He agreed that, if it was affecting his quality of life to that extent, it would be better to stop the Prascend, retest in the spring and go from there. (His ACTH levels weren't sky high to start with though so this was an option).

I hope you get things sorted with your pony. I hated watching the reactions mine had! I'd definitely speak to your vet. Good luck!

 

[Peegeesmum]

I have a 9 year old shettie that was diagnosed as a frost lamanitic - then after bloods was diagnosed as a cushinoid and Pergolide, at a dose of 1/2 tablet a day. Deep deep depression and loss of appetite followed, but sound and happy to move about. Careful management helped - but this deep depression broke my heart. I watch the pony like a hawk and I have to say that the chronic lameness that I see does not appear to come from her lamanitic feeet - it is like her muscles have locked, like a mini azotoria bout. I do a lot of massage on my other two monsters and have started massaging her - and she is really tight in the back around her kidneys. Has anyone else experienced this - is it a side effect of pergolide ? Just starting her on Bowen to see if that helps, but I am a little concerned. Any ideas anyone ?

Our 31 year old mare was diagnosed two months ago & started on Pergolide after blood tests revealed she has Cushings.
She was off her food,depressed very stiff & lame,to the point of hardly being able to get up one morning! It scared the life out of me as I feared the worst Spoke to the vet who said lameness was not a known side effect,but I have read that it is!

Anyway,she is my husbands horse & he decided that she had no quality of life since being on Pergolide & he decided to stop her medication.

Slowely,her appitite is returning & her ears are pricking up again She is having some bute until the Pergolide is fully out of her system & then we'll slowely reduce her bute & see how she is.

It does seem funny though that she was able to trot & canter around with the others until she went on Pergolide. Vet thinks it's a coincidence,but I don't, & I have her at home & see the change in her all day, every day.

 

[Fruitcake]

It does seem funny though that she was able to trot & canter around with the others until she went on Pergolide. Vet thinks it's a coincidence,but I don't, & I have her at home & see the change in her all day, every day.

I totally agree. At first, my vet was really skeptical about the extent of the side effetcs that my pony had and said he hadn't seen or heard of them before and had ponies on much larger doses. I'm sure that was true but I don't think that means these side effects don't exist and I saw such a change in my pony that it can't have been coincidence!

I can only speak from personal experience but, since stopping the Prascend, my pony seems alert and happy and back to his usual self. I do still have the worry about the Cushings and will obviously continue to monitor his ACTH levels but, at the moment, I'm more concerned about making sure he has quality of life.

I hope your horse continues to improve!

 

[Bringingonbaby]

Thanks for your response.
I had a heartbreaking evening with her last night as she was down and would not / could not get up. I tried for at least an hour and nothing would make her move at all - other than to encourage her to flop back down onto the bed. She was not sweaty, hot, out of breath, struggling, her eye was calm - but she literally seemed paralysed from 'the waist down' and if I didn't know better, I would say she was experiencing 'petite mal's. I did not give her the prescend last night and I really expected to have to take the ultimate action this morning. However I found her up and significantly brigher this morning - she is still very wobby and was standing face against the stable - but she was up and eating / drinking so it looks like she is getting it out of her system. My vet has said 'we will try her on the human form' - no you bloody won't. Anyone else's animal had a similar reaction ?

 

[Nanolol]

Simon has been on pergolide the past 2 weeks-ish. So far, so good. He is on 50 mg per day. I was warned about the potential depression but his appetite is good, he loves being out with his mates & will even chase them around.

Hope your horse is improving!

 

[Bringingonbaby]

Hi
Not for me to comment on yours
However mine is amazingly better after stopping Pergolide. Vet came out and told me stuff that one could only say from a text book - I saw my baby have mini fits - I saw her body lock so she could not move. The vet didn't. Just be aware of any doseage. Pergolide / Prascend is great in the 'initial' stages but not so good long term. Please watch your baby like a hawk. Prescend is not liceneced for equines and the vets make a lot of money out of it.... If in doubt, think of your horse first - watch how it is reacting and judge for yourself. You know your animal

 

[glenruby]

Bringing on baby - Prascend IS licensed specifically for equines.

 

[Bringingonbaby]

Nope - if you read the box then it says that it isn't. Bit of a give away really.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I think you might be getting mixed up with pergolide, bringing on baby. Prascend was specifically brought out for horses as pergolide wasn't licensed.
I hope your pony is improving now, it sounds horrific, what did your vet say when your pony couldn't get up?
Just to add a more positive view, my pony has been on pergolide/prascend for over 6 years, she started on a lower dose but has been on 2.5 mg for the last 12 months, which is a high dose for an 11.2 pony! Fingers crossed, she has never shown any side effects, and is currently looking pretty good.

 

[Nugget La Poneh]

Rosie didn't get depression, but went psychotic - a lovely, calm dope on a rope went completely nuts complete with half rearing while being led, refusing to walk only jogging. Started to box walk and stress when left in. Everyone kept telling my this was the real her and she clearly had had cushings for years which had dulled her. What for 14 years?! I don't think so.

It was this, and the fact she'd been on it for 6 weeks with no improvement in her actual health was the reason we PTS.

 

[Bringingonbaby]

Ah - clarity. Not intended for horses FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. missed that bit - sorry.

I have to say the pony is bright, she is on her feet, she is getting through her hay but she is a little reluctant to eat her meds. The pergolide made her lie, fit and she really didn't know where she was - she now whinnies at me, she is happy to stand and potter around. Decided on a natural route, so we're going with Chasteberry for the cushings, and a selenium / magnesium mix for the muscular stuff. I can only hope. And I have no issue in debating with anyone - I see her every day and I do know my pony.

 

[Nanolol]

Ah - clarity. Not intended for horses FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. missed that bit - sorry.

I have to say the pony is bright, she is on her feet, she is getting through her hay but she is a little reluctant to eat her meds. The pergolide made her lie, fit and she really didn't know where she was - she now whinnies at me, she is happy to stand and potter around. Decided on a natural route, so we're going with Chasteberry for the cushings, and a selenium / magnesium mix for the muscular stuff. I can only hope. And I have no issue in debating with anyone - I see her every day and I do know my pony.

Good to hear that she's improving

 

[rhiannonmeg]

My mare has cushings and shes had diarrohea since starting the prascend. She was on 1mg (full tablet) I stopped them for 3 days like the instruction suggested. I put her back on them but just half a tablet. She seemed fine at first then got worse again. I'm at a loss as to what to do

 

[muff747]

Anyone having problems with Cushings or Insulin resistance can join the yahoo group where there are well over 10,000 members who regularly post their experiences and tip and hints to get them to eat the tablets!
I have heard of equines being tested and found to have levels in the hundreds but have not shown any signs, apart from mystery footiness or more worryingly, a sudden bout of laminitis, usually at this time of year.
There are estimates that a very high proportion of equines over the age of ten wil probably test positive for PPID so IMHO, other illnesses could get miss diagnosed as PPID, when the symptoms are not caused by Cushings.
OP, I have known sec A's suffer from EMS and will suffer bouts of laminitis when their exercise is stopped or reduced.
I knew a sec A mare used by a riding school who was on forced box rest because of the ice and snow fall a couple of winters ago. As soon as they were able to get her moving (obviously when her feet were getting back to normal) she was ok, while ever she was being exercised.
Is it possible your pony had reduced exercise about the time her lami attack came? If it is possible, the vet needs to test for glucose and insuling ratio. If it did turn out that was the cause, the regime is similar for diabetic humans, strict low sugar/starch diet and exercise.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/ you will need to join to be able to read the files, tons of info here.
And here http://www.ecirhorse.com/
BTW the chaste tree berry may work for a while but not well enough to control the Cushings as it progresses. If your pony is not PPID and it was something else causing initial problems, perhaps that is why there were side effects on the tablets?
Hope this helps