PRE saddle fit

[Trefusia]

Hi everyone, what saddles do peeps with a PRE/barock-shape horse have please?
I am looking to find the right saddle for my 15.2 Andalusian gelding. After my research so far, I've kinda prioritized finding a Schleese (Obrigado o.s.), as I really like the idea, but they are HARD to find in the UK!
I have just had the local saddle fitter over and bought a Whitaker Harrogate, as his old saddle was a bad fit; the new saddle is a massive improvement, but I know it isn't perfect, so I see this as a short-term solution until I can find an even better one. Any advice?

 

[ycbm]

I took a WOW off a TB and put a gullet plate three sizes bigger in it and it fits my new PRE beautifully.
.

 

[Barlow]

Something which doesn’t restrict the shoulder - Bates Innova has worked well on mine and several others. Every horse is an individual though - hopefully your saddle fitter will have some ideas.

 

[Evie91]

My share horse has Bates saddles - G.P and dressage- I don’t know the models- fit her really well and comfy for me too. Shes 16hh, takes a 17inch, medium wide.

 

[TPO]

I know nothing about this type of saddle but an acquaintance is selling it and I believe it's of the type that you are looking for

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Deuber-a...294986?hash=item3b4a84e98a:g:1bcAAOSwH9pfDXyU

 

[tallyho!]

Obviously a portuguese or spanish saddles are made for these horses.

If you join the facebook PRE group or BAPSH there are lots of people who can advise. They are all individuals anyway and there's not really a typical PRE back.. I have used LM Saddles for all my horses because they fit to the horse. With my spanish horses they range from a 3 width to a 5.

 

[Cortez]

There are as many opinions on the "best" saddle for a PRE as there are PRE owners . I use baroque saddles for mine, but when we have to use a modern saddle all of mine have gone in pretty standard ones; I use an Albion MW for my most baroque-shaped horse, and have a Barnsby for another, have used a Bates as well. They're not that difficult to fit really.

 

[Littlebear]

I found an ideal and albion (both dressage) were good options, the horse before i owned it was in an equipe. So quite a few options as well as other mentioned x

 

[CanteringCarrot]

My PRE has been through a few saddles and a few incompetent fitters. He's been in a Fairfax Gareth for roughly 2 years now, but we're ready to move on from that.

He's SHORT backed, has a long withers, and is built uphill. A lot of saddles leave me in a chair seat. This time around I'm going for a Sommer. I'm having a traditional dressage saddle atop a short and wide Iberian saddle style panel made for him.

I'd make sure to ride in a Schleese before I would commit to one, personally.

 

[Pippity]

Albions worked well for my PREx share horse. His owner used an SLK, and I had a Kontrol GP (GP saddle built on the SLK tree).

 

[Flamenco]

Mine came with an ideal continental apex which fits nicely but as its an event saddle the stirrup bars are too far forward so it pushes you into a chair seat. It would be a great jump saddle though. Its made on shorter panels

Currently have an old style wintec vsd which suits us both. We also tried an old farringdon WH which fitted. The saddle fitter said whitaker, albion and wow were likely to fit. My friend has an albion vsd on hers.

Mine only takes a 16.5" unless its made on shorter panels. I had a nightmare with a previous saddle fitter who sold me a brand new saddle which didn't fit so its put me off upgrading to a nice leather saddle.

 

[Trefusia]

Hi, thanks all for your replies!
I've only just seen them, as I never got a notification (probably my fault, need to adjust settings methinks). I thought nobody had replied!
Am having a look through now!

 

[Trefusia]

Obviously a portuguese or spanish saddles are made for these horses.

If you join the facebook PRE group or BAPSH there are lots of people who can advise. They are all individuals anyway and there's not really a typical PRE back.. I have used LM Saddles for all my horses because they fit to the horse. With my spanish horses they range from a 3 width to a 5.

Thank you - it never ocurred to me to look on BAPSH, even though I had to register him there!

 

[shortstuff99]

I use a WOW on my PRE's but Bates also worked well.

 

[Joyous70]

My girl even though not strictly PRE but pure bred Lipizzaner is in an Ideal, which fits her lovely. Also Albion are usually a good fit for PRE's i belive they actually make saddles for SRS?

 

[texenstar]

Just to throw another opinion at you - I use a Lavinia Mitchell saddle for my mare. Excellent saddles and excellent saddler fitters

 

[Trefusia]

Just to throw another opinion at you - I use a Lavinia Mitchell saddle for my mare. Excellent saddles and excellent saddler fitters

Thank you, I have not heard of this one before - will check it out!

 

[sbloom]

There are so many options, I would say fit as wide a tree (wide and flat in the rails, not necessarily a wider angle in the headplate) as possible in as small a seat size as will work well for you, it allows more movement in the horse keeping stability in the saddle.

 

[Trefusia]

There are so many options, I would say fit as wide a tree (wide and flat in the rails, not necessarily a wider angle in the headplate) as possible in as small a seat size as will work well for you, it allows more movement in the horse keeping stability in the saddle.

Thank you! Yes, I found that my previous saddle was too long for him and also pinched his shoulders. When I bought it I did not know what to look out for, so had to rely on the saddlefitter, but found out by observation (and research) what was wrong. Hopefully onwards and upwards from now.

 

[sbloom]

Thank you! Yes, I found that my previous saddle was too long for him and also pinched his shoulders. When I bought it I did not know what to look out for, so had to rely on the saddlefitter, but found out by observation (and research) what was wrong. Hopefully onwards and upwards from now.

Even fitting TO the back rib, as is usual, is not always possible with PREs (and occasionally some other types).

 

[Flamenco]

Even fitting TO the back rib, as is usual, is not always possible with PREs (and occasionally some other types).

I wish I'd known this before buying a new 17.5" saddle. It looked too long but it was nowhere near the last rib. I questioned it several times and each time the saddle fitter it was the right length. Had to threaten them with court and get another saddle fitter to confirm in writing to get a refund. Turned out to be an inch too long...

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I tried a shorter saddle from Sommer yesterday, with their shorter panel option and my horse felt great. I felt...ok. So I am going to try some more. However, I had a saddle with shorter panels before and I think all of my weight was so concentrated in a small area. So I am so nervous about buying a new one...even though I have to. I thought maybe at 10 stone I am too heavy for him, so I've begun losing. But anyway, this brought me to him possibly needing a short but wide panel...such as those on an Iberian saddle.

Thinking about giving up and making him a driving horse, tbh

So I am jealous of those of you that find saddles easily!

 

[sbloom]

I wish I'd known this before buying a new 17.5" saddle. It looked too long but it was nowhere near the last rib. I questioned it several times and each time the saddle fitter it was the right length. Had to threaten them with court and get another saddle fitter to confirm in writing to get a refund. Turned out to be an inch too long...

An inch beyond the back rib? Of course it depends where you put it (I see owners but and even fitters put them forwards of where they should be, the tree points should be 2", usually 3 fingers breadth, behind the back edge of the scapula), and I'm afraid it's not always possible to predict which horses can't cope with a saddle TO the back rib. Saddle fitting has a long way to go until we have ALL the answers.

I tried a shorter saddle from Sommer yesterday, with their shorter panel option and my horse felt great. I felt...ok. So I am going to try some more. However, I had a saddle with shorter panels before and I think all of my weight was so concentrated in a small area. So I am so nervous about buying a new one...even though I have to. I thought maybe at 10 stone I am too heavy for him, so I've begun losing. But anyway, this brought me to him possibly needing a short but wide panel...such as those on an Iberian saddle.

Thinking about giving up and making him a driving horse, tbh

So I am jealous of those of you that find saddles easily!

10 stone should be absolutely doable for most ponies and horses over, say, 13.2, but there are no hard and fast rules. It's easy to think it was the short panel that was the issue, but it may have been any number of issues, and often the person assessing a saddle and saying it doesn't fit is bringing their own paradigm and identifying what they wouldn't do in their own fits, but not what could be changed in the fit in front of them, to make the saddle right. I have had someone criticise one of my fits, saying the GP flap was causing the issue on the shoulder, then they fitted a straight cut saddle in a larger seat size that sat in exactly the same place over the shoulder when fitted so it wasn't beyond the back rib!

Wide panels are good but must be approached with care, they must follow the contour of the back (which in turn reflects the tree shape which must also sit correctly laterally across the back), a wide flat seat with a wide flat panel will show a gap along its edge on the wrong shaped horse and will seek contact on one side in most instances, causing slipping.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

An inch beyond the back rib? Of course it depends where you put it (I see owners but and even fitters put them forwards of where they should be, the tree points should be 2", usually 3 fingers breadth, behind the back edge of the scapula), and I'm afraid it's not always possible to predict which horses can't cope with a saddle TO the back rib. Saddle fitting has a long way to go until we have ALL the answers.



10 stone should be absolutely doable for most ponies and horses over, say, 13.2, but there are no hard and fast rules. It's easy to think it was the short panel that was the issue, but it may have been any number of issues, and often the person assessing a saddle and saying it doesn't fit is bringing their own paradigm and identifying what they wouldn't do in their own fits, but not what could be changed in the fit in front of them, to make the saddle right. I have had someone criticise one of my fits, saying the GP flap was causing the issue on the shoulder, then they fitted a straight cut saddle in a larger seat size that sat in exactly the same place over the shoulder when fitted so it wasn't beyond the back rib!

Wide panels are good but must be approached with care, they must follow the contour of the back (which in turn reflects the tree shape which must also sit correctly laterally across the back), a wide flat seat with a wide flat panel will show a gap along its edge on the wrong shaped horse and will seek contact on one side in most instances, causing slipping.

Well said and valid points.

I've used a few fitters for this horse, and some have said x saddle is fine (looks long) or omg x saddle is not fine! He needs short, he needs wide, it fits you, it doesn't fit you. Ugh! After much experience and further education I have a decent eye and feel for what I'm looking for, so I feel as though I can trust my own judgment.

I was so pleased with how the Sommer made my horse feel yesterday, and I'm hoping I can get that feeling for him again and a better set up for myself. The fit was quite good for "off the rack" so I'm hoping after trying a bunch of Sommer's (calling another fitter who also sells them tomorrow) then going to the actual Saddlery (they have a shop and saddles there) I can put together/order exactly what I want. I'll also keep an eye on the used market, of course.

But my main point here is not to buy unless you are comfortable and your horse is. And to sit in a few, don't immediately settle - unless you're lucky and find your best match first thing!

I think I am really stressing this just because it is highly likely that this is the last saddle I'll ever buy. When this horse is done, I'm done.

 

[Cortez]

Interesting. I ride some of my PRE's in traditional vaquera saddles, which are considerably longer than most modern saddles, but have a very, very wide bearing surface. Never had a sore back.

 

[ycbm]

Interesting. I ride some of my PRE's in traditional vaquera saddles, which are considerably longer than most modern saddles, but have a very, very wide bearing surface. Never had a sore back.View attachment 52401

I have, a long time ago, before I knew about saddle fitting ridden in saddles that were way past the last rib and never had a horse with a sore back. I am not convinced it's as big an issue as it is supposed to be.

Western saddles sit way back and although I have been told its non weight bearing skirts, my friend's very expensive professionally fitted western saddle does seem to be helping distribute weight back beyond the last rib.

 

[sbloom]

Interesting. I ride some of my PRE's in traditional vaquera saddles, which are considerably longer than most modern saddles, but have a very, very wide bearing surface. Never had a sore back.View attachment 52401

I have, a long time ago, before I knew about saddle fitting ridden in saddles that were way past the last rib and never had a horse with a sore back. I am not convinced it's as big an issue as it is supposed to be.

Western saddles sit way back and although I have been told its non weight bearing skirts, my friend's very expensive professionally fitted western saddle does seem to be helping distribute weight back beyond the last rib.

The trees in western and Vaquera saddles are completely different as are the panels and skirts, even if they weight bear beyond the back rib it's in a much different way ie much less than would be the case with an English saddle. Fitting an English saddle beyond the back rib can occasionally work, but is not accepted practice.