DanielleP
Well-Known Member
SO do you guys just wait and see or is there any genetic formula you can use or rules of thumb you go by?
Predicting coat colour of foal?
- Thread starter DanielleP
- Start date
vhf
Well-Known Member
I spent years (after my degree in genetics and animal behaviour) studying and researching coat colour. It was fascinating and I learned loads.
... I wait and see... !!
... I wait and see... !!
DanielleP
Well-Known Member
really! any ideas what mine will be?
I have a flea bitten grey mare and the sire is black will it definately be one of these colours?
I have a flea bitten grey mare and the sire is black will it definately be one of these colours?
vhf
Well-Known Member
Definitely might be!
Seriously, a grey does make it a little bit easier to predict...
Grey is a "dominant" colour - if the gene for grey is there at all, it will show up in the horse eventually. So you have at least a 50:50 chance of a grey result. If your mare has both grey genes (you can have 0,1 or 2) then the foal will HAVE to inherit a grey gene from her, so will end up grey no matter what colour Dad is. But you can't tell by looking at her!
Black is an odd one - and depends partly on whether it's a "true black" or a really dark bay/brown, because it's possible for two horses who look almost identical to actually have come by their coat colour by different genes.
As your mare is grey, she could be "hiding" all sorts of colours underneath, so you could get quite a surprise.
I think there are over 30 different locations for colour genes in a horse, many of which have 2 or more "options", which is why the colours are so interesting but so tricky to predict unless you know a lot about the breeding, family etc. of each horse you're interested in.
Seriously, a grey does make it a little bit easier to predict...
Grey is a "dominant" colour - if the gene for grey is there at all, it will show up in the horse eventually. So you have at least a 50:50 chance of a grey result. If your mare has both grey genes (you can have 0,1 or 2) then the foal will HAVE to inherit a grey gene from her, so will end up grey no matter what colour Dad is. But you can't tell by looking at her!
Black is an odd one - and depends partly on whether it's a "true black" or a really dark bay/brown, because it's possible for two horses who look almost identical to actually have come by their coat colour by different genes.
As your mare is grey, she could be "hiding" all sorts of colours underneath, so you could get quite a surprise.
I think there are over 30 different locations for colour genes in a horse, many of which have 2 or more "options", which is why the colours are so interesting but so tricky to predict unless you know a lot about the breeding, family etc. of each horse you're interested in.
MillionDollar
Well-Known Member
DanielleP
Well-Known Member
THATS EXCELLENT THANKS
vicijp
Well-Known Member
So,
My mare is bay, and had a bay foal this year, by a bay stallion.
She is now infoal to a grey stallion.
Probably grey?
My mare is bay, and had a bay foal this year, by a bay stallion.
She is now infoal to a grey stallion.
Probably grey?
vhf
Well-Known Member
Hmm. Depends a lot on Dad. 50% chance of grey anyway! Again if he's a "double dose" of grey, the foal will have to be grey.
But Mum could be "hiding" chestnut - which has a habit of staying hidden for several generations sometimes as its a true "recessive" coat colour! Grey dad could be hiding chestnut too, and if they both passed on the hidden chestnut, and dad didn't pass on his grey, you'd end up with a chestnut baby. Or he could be hiding bay...
But Mum could be "hiding" chestnut - which has a habit of staying hidden for several generations sometimes as its a true "recessive" coat colour! Grey dad could be hiding chestnut too, and if they both passed on the hidden chestnut, and dad didn't pass on his grey, you'd end up with a chestnut baby. Or he could be hiding bay...
vicijp
Well-Known Member
Christ!
I know the sires dad was grey, and everything ive seen by him is also?
I know the sires dad was grey, and everything ive seen by him is also?
Damien
Well-Known Member
You might find this of use!
http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp
basically the foals can be any colour depending on the genes that each parent carries, so bay, chestnut, grey or black are all possibilities....
http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp
basically the foals can be any colour depending on the genes that each parent carries, so bay, chestnut, grey or black are all possibilities....
vhf
Well-Known Member
Yup, that's why I reckon it's still almost as good as "Cover her facing east if you dont want a chestnut filly"!
If dad's NEVER had anything but grey foals, and he's had a lot, there's a high chance he will only throw greys, but I wouldn't put money one it. If one of his parents isn't grey, then you know for sure he could have a non-grey baby. In some breeds a "homozygous grey" (double dose) is far more likely than others.
If dad's NEVER had anything but grey foals, and he's had a lot, there's a high chance he will only throw greys, but I wouldn't put money one it. If one of his parents isn't grey, then you know for sure he could have a non-grey baby. In some breeds a "homozygous grey" (double dose) is far more likely than others.
Enfys
Well-Known Member
This colour thing is fun isn't it?
I play about on the Colour calculator quite a lot, but I'm afraid that I don't yet understand the technical stuff, such as agouti or silver carrier!
It used to be so much simpler in the old days when you had bays, greys, chestnuts etc and non of this silver bay, dusty black, dunalino, perlino etc, shades to confuse me
As for coloureds, well! I thought skewbald and piebald was the limit but since I got my paint mare I've just about got my head around all this tobiano/tovero/splash/frame/sabino/overo ad infinitum malarkey.
I was pretty startled when my bay mare (by a grey x bay) threw a palomino to a palomino stallion (history unknown), the percentage of that was pretty low and people seeing the horses out together often presume that the palomino stallion with them (not her sire) is the foals dam.
I play about on the Colour calculator quite a lot, but I'm afraid that I don't yet understand the technical stuff, such as agouti or silver carrier!
I was pretty startled when my bay mare (by a grey x bay) threw a palomino to a palomino stallion (history unknown), the percentage of that was pretty low and people seeing the horses out together often presume that the palomino stallion with them (not her sire) is the foals dam.
AimeeLou
Well-Known Member
all ways wanted to know, if you had a homozygous coloured and put them to a homozygous few spot, what would be the out come? A spotty coloured???
Enfys
Well-Known Member
Interesting to say the least! I think you would be guessing right up until it arrived.
If I was breeding for colour and tried that combination, with my luck I would get a solid bay!
If I was breeding for colour and tried that combination, with my luck I would get a solid bay!
Spot_the_Risk
Well-Known Member
Well I put a few spot to a chesnut stallion, and knowing nothing, was sure I would get a chesnut, but ended up with a near leopard appaloosa!
ClaireT
Well-Known Member
have been trying the calculator, alas there is no 'brown'...wish my horse was one of those fancy colours!!
Opie, care to hazard a guess as to what I'd get from my solid dark brown mare if I put her to McJonnas????
My OH says please can you make him one with a black coat and white mane & tail
Opie, care to hazard a guess as to what I'd get from my solid dark brown mare if I put her to McJonnas????
My OH says please can you make him one with a black coat and white mane & tail
henryhorn
Well-Known Member
Our grey mares put to our stallion who is very dark bay almost black have all had grey foals...
They come out light bay colour almost chesnut, but they soon start to show their actual colour round their noses.
I reckon you'll get grey..(dark going whiter later with age)
They come out light bay colour almost chesnut, but they soon start to show their actual colour round their noses.
I reckon you'll get grey..(dark going whiter later with age)
Damien
Well-Known Member
erm......... well, its simple really, if your mare carries the red gene she could have a palomino, but if she has no red gene which is possible, she may have a buckskin, but then again if she is not homozygous agouti she may produce a smokey black.... so to have a better inclination it's best to test her to see what she is.
I am not sure about the silver part, I do not know why the dark chocolate palomino has a platimum mane and tail... need help from colour gurus on that one... I know he has a silver chrome sheen to him but do not know if that is what they call silver.
I am not sure about the silver part, I do not know why the dark chocolate palomino has a platimum mane and tail... need help from colour gurus on that one... I know he has a silver chrome sheen to him but do not know if that is what they call silver.
AimeeLou
Well-Known Member
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I use this-
http://www.horsetesting.com/CCalculator1.asp?Error=1
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know what 80% of those colours are! Where's plain old dapple grey? I can't find any grey on the list, although there is a tick option separately for grey... I can't just tick that without ticking an option from the list... so which do I pick?
Totally fascinating though!!
ETS: Ok, worked it out (should've read instructions!) What if you don't know what colour a horse is before it went grey?
I use this-
http://www.horsetesting.com/CCalculator1.asp?Error=1
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know what 80% of those colours are! Where's plain old dapple grey? I can't find any grey on the list, although there is a tick option separately for grey... I can't just tick that without ticking an option from the list... so which do I pick?
Totally fascinating though!!
ETS: Ok, worked it out (should've read instructions!) What if you don't know what colour a horse is before it went grey?
Damien
Well-Known Member
If you don't know what she is you can have her tested by pulling mane hairs and sending them off to an animal genetics lab the primciple one being the Univeristy of kentucky. its not expensive over here most ise Avian Biotechs who deal with everything but hair is tested in the US
SirenaXVI
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
You might find this of use!
http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp
basically the foals can be any colour depending on the genes that each parent carries, so bay, chestnut, grey or black are all possibilities....
[/ QUOTE ]
I had my 'grey' mare genetically tested for colour by Animal Genetics as my breed registrar was convinced she was carrying the cream gene because as a foal she was a sort of chocolate dun - she came out homozygous agouti (bay)! Sadly no cream or red genes
Daniel at AG told me that in about six months time they should be able to test for the grey factor.
I may well have my other mares tested (all are grey) just to see what their true colours actually are and whether they carry double grey genes or not. am pretty sure that Lluna is only carrying one grey gene as she has already had a bay non greying foal (from a grey stally), she is currently in foal to a bay so fingers crossed I could get a bay. The tests are not too expensive so worth it I think.
You might find this of use!
http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp
basically the foals can be any colour depending on the genes that each parent carries, so bay, chestnut, grey or black are all possibilities....
[/ QUOTE ]
I had my 'grey' mare genetically tested for colour by Animal Genetics as my breed registrar was convinced she was carrying the cream gene because as a foal she was a sort of chocolate dun - she came out homozygous agouti (bay)! Sadly no cream or red genes
Daniel at AG told me that in about six months time they should be able to test for the grey factor.
I may well have my other mares tested (all are grey) just to see what their true colours actually are and whether they carry double grey genes or not. am pretty sure that Lluna is only carrying one grey gene as she has already had a bay non greying foal (from a grey stally), she is currently in foal to a bay so fingers crossed I could get a bay. The tests are not too expensive so worth it I think.
Damien
Well-Known Member
Daniel, really is fab isn't he, always so helpful! Agree it's fun knowing what their colour genetic makeup is.
DanielleP
Well-Known Member
"Our grey mares put to our stallion who is very dark bay almost black have all had grey foals...
They come out light bay colour almost chesnut, but they soon start to show their actual colour round their noses.
I reckon you'll get grey..(dark going whiter later with age) "
Thanks! desperatly want a grey and not a chestnut, as least if it comes out a bit chestnutty i can cross my fingers it will change!
They come out light bay colour almost chesnut, but they soon start to show their actual colour round their noses.
I reckon you'll get grey..(dark going whiter later with age) "
Thanks! desperatly want a grey and not a chestnut, as least if it comes out a bit chestnutty i can cross my fingers it will change!
the watcher
Well-Known Member
I was struggling a bit with working out which colours to put in, my mouse dun mare (her dam started dun but turned grey, the stallion was dun) is going to be crossed with a chestnut..I am assuming I might get something with more red, but still with the dun markings, it will be interesting waiting to see what comes out and what the final colour is.