pregnancy scanning

[greenroof]

Has anyone on here ever had a mare covered which is then scanned not in foal, then goes on to foal?
Can anyone with experience of scanning please explain how this is possible, and how common it is.

 

[cruiseline]

I suppose it is possible if the vets who scanned her are not experienced reproductive vets. If the mare has lots of cysts, then the vets could have overlooked it when it was actually a pregnancy. How long after covering was she scanned?

Also could there be a possibility that the mare was covered again, without anyone knowing (ie running with a stallion, or one escaped) on her next cycle.

 

[greenroof]

Thanks for your reply. She was scanned at approx 18 days then we collected her as it was too late to cover her again as we didn't want a late foal, so there is no possibility that she was covered by anything else as she is kept at home, only with another mare, no other horses. I did ring the practice at the time, and they looked up some records and mentioned something about a corpus luteum, but I can't remember exactly what they said now.

 

[rachi0]

I suppose it is possible if the vets who scanned her are not experienced reproductive vets. If the mare has lots of cysts, then the vets could have overlooked it when it was actually a pregnancy. How long after covering was she scanned? QUOTE]

Fully agree with this!!!^^^^

I knew a mare that was used as a bounce mare. Basically she would be used to let the stallions have a 'blowout' and she would be used as a foster mare at the stud if she had a foal.
it was late on in the season and they had a young vet check her..(young vet was only allowed to pregnancy scan the foster mares!- not the tb's)
No pregnancy at 14 days... didn't do anything with her.. until the next season...

young vet puts his hand in.. not much going on with her ovaries.. wait a few days.. put hand in again.. give her a bit more time... about 2 weeks this went on.. they decided they were going to pg her so put hand in once again before they did.. and experienced vet was with the young vet watching.... she saw something on the screen.. she put her hand in.. and felt a lovely foal in there. she foaled about 3-4 months later!!! and nice healthy colt!!

I think it depends on how experienced your vet is as cruiseline said.. if your mare has cysts that look like pregnancy.. although they should be noted before you cover so you have an idea where all the cysts are.. I don't think its a very common occurance

(the corpus luteum (CL) is what the vet will refer to when your mare has ovulated!) is your mare definately in foal? have you had the vet back to check?

 

[cruiseline]

Thanks for your reply. She was scanned at approx 18 days then we collected her as it was too late to cover her again

So there was no heartbeat scan done, then it is possible that the vet overlooked a pregnancy.

 

[Avonbrook]

I had one scanned at 17 days post insemination by an experienced stud vet that I am still enjoying teasing She was 22 at the time and I had taken the view that I would give her one "opportunity" but not to throw the full veterinary book at her. She was washed out the day after insemination and hadn't ovulated at that point. I didn't want her repeatedly scanned so she wasn't scanned again until the 17 day point, when she scanned empty (no cysts).

I am told that, for a pregnancy to be too small to show at that point she would need not to have ovulated for 5 days post insemination. With that mare's cycle anything is possible and the resulting foal is a filly... but I don't know... I was just very happy at the expression on the vet's face when she was rescanned the following January (in time to start EHV vacc's for a July due date)

 

[greenroof]

Thank you for your replies. My mare was last covered in July, so wouldn't be due for a while yet if she is in foal. She has got bigger and bigger, even though she hasn't been over fed, and is a very odd shape if she isn't in foal. Her abdomen moves a lot when she is eating, but this seems to be associated with her breathing, so it is hard to say whether any of the movement is foal related or not. There is no sign of any bag. I am going to wait 2 or 3 more weeks before I have her tested as I don't really want to pay another vets bill when she may come in season in the next few weeks or show more definite signs of being in foal.

 

[Bearskin]

I knew a mare that was used as a bounce mare. Basically she would be used to let the stallions have a 'blowout' and she would be used as a foster mare at the stud if she had a foal.

Just out of interest, what happens to the foster mother's foal if she is needed to foster one of the TB foals? Is it hand reared?

 

[rachi0]

Just out of interest, what happens to the foster mother's foal if she is needed to foster one of the TB foals? Is it hand reared?

Yeah.. Basically.. that is her job!

Once she foals.. her baby is covered in euculyptus oil (excuse my spelling).. so that is what she associates with her new born.... ever 2 - 3 days the foal will be coated with more oil.... to top up the smell..

IF there is a TB that needs fostering.. she will have her foal taken away.. new foal covered in euculyptus oil.. and we start the fostering process...

Foal is taken to different side of the farm.. (Its huge) and will be bucket fed! - it will be given a nanny mare to look after it (one of the retired breeding old girls!) - Unfortunately last year we ended up having 5 or 6 fostered.. so there were a good few bucket reared.. but they all had a great time hanging out with their new granny's and their new best friends!!!! they weren't the least bit worried... and took to bucket feeding really well

 

[Maesfen]

they weren't the least bit worried... and took to bucket feeding really well

When I took over Freddy and Harry at just three weeks, I was surprised how well they took to the bucket and I defy anyone that didn't know their story, to say they were inferior or backward to others of the same age that are on their own dams. It certainly didn't stunt their growth or development at all, they both integrate with the others well too; it certainly hasn't held them back.

 

[angrovestud]

I have quiet a funny story about scanning mares not in foal my siser in law had her mare here and was scanned before before being covered as she was a silent type no signs at all and we did not want to risk the stallion
We covered her day after scan and she had been badly behaved when scanned so my sister in law had decided that she would take her home as in was late on in the season.
The mare was blood tested at 30 off days not in foal then again at five months I think not in foal then she was PD and they thought they could find something but still not sure.
Then at nine months my sister in law was saying that she so fat they decided to do more blood tests this time I was told that these tests could not be wrong her Progestrone was so low it barely made her female let alone support a foal.
11 months hit town and so did a Chesnut colt!
the funny thing is that 2 vets in the family didnt thing that tests could be wrong, and all those blood tests that said Not in foal.

 

[rachi0]

When I took over Freddy and Harry at just three weeks, I was surprised how well they took to the bucket and I defy anyone that didn't know their story, to say they were inferior or backward to others of the same age that are on their own dams. It certainly didn't stunt their growth or development at all, they both integrate with the others well too; it certainly hasn't held them back.

Ours weren't backwards either!... they are well looked after. We creep fed them their milk as we found the nanny mares were drinking it too!... we actually had a tb mare colic and die.... her foal was doing extremely well at about 7 weeks old.. we had option to foster or bucket rear and went for the bucket rearing option as we could control the amount of food he was going to get! helped his legs NO end... He was a big heavy foal.. upright over at the knee.. he did fantastically on the bucket. - all the foals are socialised with other mares.. we ended up having 2 nanny mares in with them as there were so many.. just so the old girls could keep those troublesome tearaways in check and teach them horse etiquete...

 

[shirleyno2]

I usually have at least one per year returning as empty, that when we rescan she is in fact in foal, luckily we always scan before pg'ing! It does however waste mare owners money. yes they can be missed if late ovulating but if you scan post ai you've usually got a fair idea; that said we scanned twins at 28 days that were only a single at 15 days, 2nd embryo was at least 5 days younger than 1st, the joys of good semen/extender I guess! We now scan 14, 16 and 28 days!

 

[JanetGeorge]

Yep - ruddy mares don't read the book! The best mare I ever had I bought as not in foal (from a good stud with a good stud vet!) She's been covered, scanned empty, washed out - then they decided to sell her!

I spent the winter looking at her - gee, she looks a bit light - upped her haylage. Mmm - she looks a bit pot bellied - wormed her again! It actually never occurred to me that she might be in foal! (She produced a nice filly in the field - first I knew was when I saw her down in labour!)

She was like that for the rest of her breeding career - she hid foals for England!! EVERY time the vet would start to say: "I'm afraid I can't see anything..." I'd replay - this is Portia, keep looking!! Then he would find a pregnancy - often in the wrong place - or evidence that there WAS a pregnancy even though he couldn't find the embryo!

I now have 4 of her daughters in my herd and two have already showed the same dubious talent! But if they turn out to be as good as she was, then I'll forgive them and just keep reminding the vet to 'keep looking'!

 

[Avonbrook]

I now have 4 of her daughters in my herd and two have already showed the same dubious talent! But if they turn out to be as good as she was, then I'll forgive them and just keep reminding the vet to 'keep looking'!

Thanks for the heads up - I'm covering my mare's 5yo daughter for the first time this year!

 

[greenroof]

Mare finally scanned in foal

 

[The_snoopster]

Yeah.. Basically.. that is her job!

Once she foals.. her baby is covered in euculyptus oil (excuse my spelling).. so that is what she associates with her new born.... ever 2 - 3 days the foal will be coated with more oil.... to top up the smell..

IF there is a TB that needs fostering.. she will have her foal taken away.. new foal covered in euculyptus oil.. and we start the fostering process...

Foal is taken to different side of the farm.. (Its huge) and will be bucket fed! - it will be given a nanny mare to look after it (one of the retired breeding old girls!) - Unfortunately last year we ended up having 5 or 6 fostered.. so there were a good few bucket reared.. but they all had a great time hanging out with their new granny's and their new best friends!!!! they weren't the least bit worried... and took to bucket feeding really well

Just a quick question, if the foal removed from the foster mares do so well being bucket fed, why are,nt the foster foals fed in this way with the nanny mare teaching them manners. I am not for or against this system, but when these subjects come up, the stud yards alway say how well the foster mares real babies do on bucket feed etc, so I am just curious as to why the orphaned foals are not just bucket fed if this works so well ?

Also congratulations on your scanned infoal mare