Pregnant or not?

[horsefeed]

14.2hh 6 year old maiden mare.
She has been turned out with an entire donkey since birth, said donkey has lived with horse mares for 10+ year, never ever seen hims show any interest so this is potentially his 1st foal too
Vet has been out and seen her, but wouldn't scan or palpate as didn't want to sedate her in field, I have no facilities just turnout! I wasn't impressed and looking at other vets! She also said blood test waste of money as inconclusive. Vet agreed looking at her externally was a possibility and just to wait and see what happens!
Since then mare has continued to get bigger and this morning, I notice her teats seem to have dropped slightly, they were faces each other before! She also has the little swellings in front of them.
I convinced myself last week I could see something moving around but seen nothing for a few days so now doubting myself.
My sister who rides her is convinced she is as her way of going is massively different.
She has been turned out all winter which just hay and tiny hard feed when ridden, she has been ridden 2/3 times every week including hunting. Her companions are all considerably skinnier than she is.
Thoughts on pictures?

 

[ihatework]

My thoughts?
Sounds like a distinct possibility, a highly unsuitable set up for a mule foal and an astonishing lack of insight from an owner.

 

[horsefeed]

You have no idea on my full set up, my donkey cannot be gelded due to a blood vessel issues and his gelding friend died some years ago and he has lived with horses well since. This is the 1st scare in 10 years! I have bred horse foals before, in fact this girlie is one I have bred she has lived out fine her whole life with shelter so why would a mule be any different? Is Donkeys and Horse thrive in my care, why would a mule struggle?

 

[**Maisey**]

My thoughts?
Sounds like a distinct possibility, a highly unsuitable set up for a mule foal and an astonishing lack of insight from an owner.

Genuinely interested in why this is such an unsuitable set up for a mule if horses and at least one donkey from what I can make out are thriving there? Okay the photos in question are quite muddy but surely that’s only a snapshot of this persons field/set up and who doesn’t have mud at the time of year anyway. Surely it is better for horses to live out, where possible and we know nothing else about their access to other facilities should the need arise or her experience in horse/donkey/mule care and breeding! Little judgmental in my opinion, but each to their own!

 

[TheMule]

Ask your vet about chemical castration if you don't want to risk a mule foal in the future, you cannot keep an entire in with mares and expect there not to be consequences, even if he hasn't succeeded to this point!

 

[ihatework]

Genuinely interested in why this is such an unsuitable set up for a mule if horses and at least one donkey from what I can make out are thriving there? Okay the photos in question are quite muddy but surely that’s only a snapshot of this persons field/set up and who doesn’t have mud at the time of year anyway. Surely it is better for horses to live out, where possible and we know nothing else about their access to other facilities should the need arise or her experience in horse/donkey/mule care and breeding! Little judgmental in my opinion, but each to their own!

Okay. Replace mule foal with any foal.
It’s a bog and with dubious fencing.
The vet declined to do a manual due to lack of facilities.

Of course it’s completely up to OP what conditions they wish to raise a foal in and I wish them the very best of luck.

 

[AmyMay]

Op, as you’re experienced at breeding presumably you’ll know the signs to look for.

You’ll also know that there is a lot of work to be done to your fencing to make it safe for a foal (should one arriving.

I’m not sure, though, why you’d want to look for a new vet. Yours sounds eminently sensible.

 

[horsefeed]

Okay. Replace mule foal with any foal.
It’s a bog and with dubious fencing.
The vet declined to do a manual due to lack of facilities.

Of course it’s completely up to OP what conditions they wish to raise a foal in and I wish them the very best of luck.

Yes it its bog directly in front of containers and gate ways, the sheep wire behind is very old and we are mid way through a re-fencing project, which hasn't helped the mud as there as been more movement across the field then there normally is.

I have attached a picture of directly behind where I was stood for above pictures, it was taken a few days a go and you can see the replaced fencing and lack of mud in comparison. The area you see in these photo will be re-fenced and have hard-core and road planning down on by next winter.

Where the donkey is also a tiny little paddock I use to separate them at dinner times or when I hack out so rest of field doesn't get destroyed by the others running about, because they are not in it much it will be the last part to be replaced.

They also have access to quite a big copse/wooded area which offers amazing shelter and I have a field shelter flat packed and ready to go up once we have finished the fencing again I am hoping to put some sort of base in it and then bed down.

The field is very much a working process at the moment!

I know its not ideal keeping him out with the girls, but I fully accept the consequences, we initially brought him years ago to breed a mule and then when he didn't and got to the point where we didn't expect it so we just left him with them as he seemed happy. I will indeed look at chemical castration if we do get a foal to prevent future mules.

The vet in question was strange as I have had mares scanned in the field before. Nothing to do with donkey, ovary issues in an older mare and the vet had no problem with getting equipment out in the field. This vet was young and generally didn't seem very confident, she didn't know answers to several other questions I asked and generally I didn't feel confident in her. I have spoken to another vet since who is happy to come out and scan as soon as I have a day of work.

 

[horsefeed]

Op, as you’re experienced at breeding presumably you’ll know the signs to look for.

You’ll also know that there is a lot of work to be done to your fencing to make it safe for a foal (should one arriving.

I’m not sure, though, why you’d want to look for a new vet. Yours sounds eminently sensible.

I have bred twice before so not that experienced and both had scans early on as I knew exactly when they were covered etc....

Please see my other post new vet and fencing is being sorted

 

[AmyMay]

Just a thought, OP. How are you going to manage if she is in foal. Looking at your old posts it seems that you only go up once day.

 

[Casey76]

I’m going to go with fat...

 

[ycbm]

HF as far as the replaced fencing goes, I think I can see three strands of barbed wire onto wonky posts. Ignoring the wonky posts for the moment, barbed wire is asking for trouble with any horse, never mind a foal. Please think about adding some electric lines to it before the foal is born. It still wouldn't be ideal, but a lot better than now.

 

[horsefeed]

Just a thought, OP. How are you going to manage if she is in foal. Looking at your old posts it seems that you only go up once day.

Got a new job so been able to go a lot more now, my sister has also come back to riding after a few years break and she rides most days at a different time to me due to child care etc plus a new neighbour has borrowed 1 of my ponies to keep hers company over the road and she checks on them every evening when walking her dog in exchange for me feeding hers on a Thursday when she is away working. Most days they see someone at least 3 times now sometimes 4.

In addition to this the new neighbour has stables which I have access to if needed so in theory I could bring her in hook up some sort of camera to my phone. The local farmer who also let me rent a gated corner or his cow shed if needs be in the short term.

 

[horsefeed]

HF as far as the replaced fencing goes, I think I can see three strands of barbed wire onto wonky posts. Ignoring the wonky posts for the moment, barbed wire is asking for trouble with any horse, never mind a foal. Please think about adding some electric lines to it before the foal is born. It still wouldn't be ideal, but a lot better than now.

Its plan wire and electrified, the posts aren't wonky they have all been put in with spirit level

 

[ester]

if it's electrified it isn't really 'plain wire' and I wouldn't want either with foal myself.

 

[horsefeed]

if it's electrified it isn't really 'plain wire' and I wouldn't want either with foal myself.

Its 3.2mm plain wire that is electrified, it was the most horse friendly fencing or all them fencing my landlord would allow.
I have had 2 previous foals out in these field even with the old sheep wire and not had any issues, I know its best to be save them sorry, I am trying to improve it for myself and horses but I have council, landlord and financial restraints to work with too.
Any foal/if there is a foal will be loved and looked after. I appreciate everyone's concern about my animals but that wasn't the real reason for this thread, it was purely looking at these picture do you think she is in foal or not?

 

[ycbm]

Its plan wire and electrified, the posts aren't wonky they have all been put in with spirit level

But there don't appear to be any insulators and the wire looks fuzzy? And if those posts are upright or anywhere near new, then there's something seriously wierd going on with the camera.

 

[bubsqueaks]

We were in this situation last year - there's a really good facebook page that's so helpful but I cant for the life of me remember its name - they are so helpful & knowledgeable breeders who can tell so much by looking at the udders - will see if I can dig out some more.
We did a horse pregnancyEquine P test which proved to be false positive - vet scanned & empty - just fat!

 

[bubsqueaks]

Its called "the foaling hub" - brilliant group with lots of friendly advice from people in these exact situations - good luck - always a worry aren't they!

 

[ester]

Its 3.2mm plain wire that is electrified, it was the most horse friendly fencing or all them fencing my landlord would allow.
I have had 2 previous foals out in these field even with the old sheep wire and not had any issues, I know its best to be save them sorry, I am trying to improve it for myself and horses but I have council, landlord and financial restraints to work with too.
Any foal/if there is a foal will be loved and looked after. I appreciate everyone's concern about my animals but that wasn't the real reason for this thread, it was purely looking at these picture do you think she is in foal or not?

That's maybe where the issue has come in with some confusion/the replies you have received as your OP said 'thoughts on pictures?' not thoughts on whether the mare was pregnant or not, you might have thought it obvious but it wasn't to me.

In which case I'm going to plump for not.

 

[horsefeed]

But there don't appear to be any insulators and the wire looks fuzzy? And if those posts are upright or anywhere near new, then there's something seriously wierd going on with the camera.

This particular fence line was put in back in November, some of post were 2nd hand but the plain wire runs through small, rubber o-rings and then nailed to post over these to stop it earthing through posts. Took me bloods hours because they have to the threaded on from the end!
Photo was taken on my phone in the rain so not sure. But I can assure you plain wire and connected up to an electric zapper that runs all the farmers fences.

 

[ycbm]

I'm with not as well.

 

[horsefeed]

Its called "the foaling hub" - brilliant group with lots of friendly advice from people in these exact situations - good luck - always a worry aren't they!

Thank you very much for this will have a look, yes they do like to worry us

 

[ihatework]

I think you should take your mare to your neighbours stables and get a vet to a) do a manual and b) if possible a scan to date.

If she is pregnant, then the slight bagging up might mean you have a foal arriving in the next few weeks so you will need to get your skates on with feeding and preparing a safe, non-boggy area for foaling.

ETA - she could just as easily not be in foal. I was convinced mine was last year, she was huge, bagging up and there was stomach movement. Given she had received an embryo the previous summer, but allegedly slipped it, it was well within the realms of possibility there was a baby on board. Turned out she was just a fat wind bag.

 

[rabatsa]

I too had a donkey stallion out with mares hoping for a mule foal with zilch results as he just did not see horses/ponies as sex symbols. He did however cover a mule mare who looked very much like your mare in the pictures. It was just fat, my mules udder was lots bigger too.

 

[Goldenstar]

Sometimes I just despair .

 

[sport horse]

If it was possible to just look at a picture of a mare and tell if she is in foal then that would be great. I would not need to pay my vets to scan my brood mares. I have far too much respect for my vets to ask them to scan in a field. Nor would ask a farrier to trim/shoe in a field. It is our responsibility as horse owners to provide suitable facilities to maximise safety for these professionals. Horses and ponies are unpredictable and are flight animals and we should take that on board and keep them where there are suitable facilities to handle them safely in all circumstances.

 

[JJS]

She does look rather suspicious. I think you're on the right lines with getting a second vet to come out and scan.

 

[cundlegreen]

She does look rather suspicious. I think you're on the right lines with getting a second vet to come out and scan.

if she is in foal, which I rather doubt, she will be wider on one side than the other. She just looks fat to me.

 

[JJS]

if she is in foal, which I rather doubt, she will be wider on one side than the other. She just looks fat to me.

That said, Mary was one of the rare exceptions to this rule. She was never really bigger on one side than the other, and even when she did balloon, it was pretty evenly spread. That's why I think it's always better to rule it out one way or the other rather than guessing.