Preparing for sale/PPE - vet history, swapping leads on lunge questions

alishaarrr

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I’ve had my 12yo WBx mare for two years. About a year ago she was pretty happily storming around BE 80-90 courses and jumping 1m or so, but we brought the vet in as were feeling some little niggling thing not quite right with her. Nerve blocks, X-rays and MRI diagnosed very mild navicular in her LF hoof (no tendon lesions, just mild inflammation and minor navicular bone changes) and the tiniest touch of something in her SI joint on ultrasound, but nothing very concerning for her age. She had her navicular bursa injected and got about a month of box rest to let the tendon inflammation subside, but the vet felt the navicular would be very stable with a minor change to her shoeing protocol (no heart bar shoes or wedges or such, just angle changes and a slightly different shoe shape). Once she returned to work, SI injected to address any inflammation and pain there.

Shortly after, because horses, she had a field accident and broke her LH splint bone and got another 12 weeks of box rest while that healed. It healed very nicely without surgery, and the vet said that would present no complications whatsoever. He felt that the extra rest would have been good for her other issues and that she should now be in a really good position to return to full work, jump, etc with no issues. I opted to have our physio do a six-session course of Indiba treatments on both the LF foot/tendon area and her pelvis, just to alleviate any remaining inflammation that might be there and support optimal healing.

She has come back into work nicely — good and forward, absolutely loving her jumping, generally looking quite well. However, I am going to be moving from the UK back to the US at the end of the summer, so have made the tough decision to put her up for sale … mostly on account of us not being quite the right fit for me to pay the costs to import her.

As we look toward selling, there’s obviously a vet history here, and one issue in particular continues to be a concern with regard to her ability to pass a PPE and demonstrate complete soundness: she really struggles to canter on the lunge. She’s pretty unbalanced and swaps leads multiple times. I cannot figure out whether this is a soundness issue or just a strength and balance issue. I am not huge on lunging in general, so she doesn’t do a ton of it, particularly at the canter. But it seems to me this is likely to tank any five-stage vetting. I would really appreciate any thoughts on this — whether it sounds like she’s just unsound, whether there’s something we could be doing to help her figure out how to canter on the lunge properly, or any other advice.

My other broad question is how to sell a horse with this kind of history. Does this sound like she should just be marketed as a horse that won’t pass a vetting, and priced accordingly? Unfortunately she is not suitable for a happy hacking or dressage sort of home, as she isn’t the most confident hacker solo nor completely bombproof out with others, and does require a weekly jump or so to keep her happy. Would be really grateful for any thoughts on how to sell this mare, as she’s really a lovely horse and I think can still go out and do a lower-level job. We’re really struggling to figure out how to price her based on where she’s at.
 

Birker2020

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I’ve had my 12yo WBx mare for two years. About a year ago she was pretty happily storming around BE 80-90 courses and jumping 1m or so, but we brought the vet in as were feeling some little niggling thing not quite right with her. Nerve blocks, X-rays and MRI diagnosed very mild navicular in her LF hoof (no tendon lesions, just mild inflammation and minor navicular bone changes) and the tiniest touch of something in her SI joint on ultrasound, but nothing very concerning for her age. She had her navicular bursa injected and got about a month of box rest to let the tendon inflammation subside, but the vet felt the navicular would be very stable with a minor change to her shoeing protocol (no heart bar shoes or wedges or such, just angle changes and a slightly different shoe shape). Once she returned to work, SI injected to address any inflammation and pain there.

Shortly after, because horses, she had a field accident and broke her LH splint bone and got another 12 weeks of box rest while that healed. It healed very nicely without surgery, and the vet said that would present no complications whatsoever. He felt that the extra rest would have been good for her other issues and that she should now be in a really good position to return to full work, jump, etc with no issues. I opted to have our physio do a six-session course of Indiba treatments on both the LF foot/tendon area and her pelvis, just to alleviate any remaining inflammation that might be there and support optimal healing.

She has come back into work nicely — good and forward, absolutely loving her jumping, generally looking quite well. However, I am going to be moving from the UK back to the US at the end of the summer, so have made the tough decision to put her up for sale … mostly on account of us not being quite the right fit for me to pay the costs to import her.

As we look toward selling, there’s obviously a vet history here, and one issue in particular continues to be a concern with regard to her ability to pass a PPE and demonstrate complete soundness: she really struggles to canter on the lunge. She’s pretty unbalanced and swaps leads multiple times. I cannot figure out whether this is a soundness issue or just a strength and balance issue. I am not huge on lunging in general, so she doesn’t do a ton of it, particularly at the canter. But it seems to me this is likely to tank any five-stage vetting. I would really appreciate any thoughts on this — whether it sounds like she’s just unsound, whether there’s something we could be doing to help her figure out how to canter on the lunge properly, or any other advice.

My other broad question is how to sell a horse with this kind of history. Does this sound like she should just be marketed as a horse that won’t pass a vetting, and priced accordingly? Unfortunately she is not suitable for a happy hacking or dressage sort of home, as she isn’t the most confident hacker solo nor completely bombproof out with others, and does require a weekly jump or so to keep her happy. Would be really grateful for any thoughts on how to sell this mare, as she’s really a lovely horse and I think can still go out and do a lower-level job. We’re really struggling to figure out how to price her based on where she’s at.
Interesting what you say about lunging. My boy who is being retired next month as an 11yr old has both chronic and acute S.I. Last time he was lunged before his final treatment of medicating both KS and S.I he couldn't maintain canter and kept swapping legs behind. The vet said it was because he was quite sore over his s.i. which presented and still does as dipping when lightly pressed.

I haven't cantered him on the lunge since because shortly after i threw in the towel having lost my pro rider and the fact that he had query PSD. He also has KS, coffin joint and neck arthritis and it was a case of 'flogging a dead horse' for want of a better expression.

So to cut a long story short it mught be your horse is still a bit sore, maybe getting the S.I medicated again might help? I believe from what I've read that sometimes the S.I medication needs to be repeated within short space of time to get the desired result.

During all these issues last April I'd made the incredibly hard decision to put Lari on sales livery with a popular rider in the area with full disclosure. He said the horse had started to play up with him after day four or five in the school. We shot over there and watched him ride and could see the issues he was encountering, from first getting on him and him shooting off to napping and planting in the school after a few minutes. However the napping/planting was when he was asked to do more collected work and ride circles. When the chap opened him up around the sides of the school he moved amazing well and without issues so he was going to market him as a hunter having got in touch with a previous owner who had hunted him for a couple of seasons and found he was very good in the field. Going in straight lines in a canter/gallop seemed to suit his physical issues. He'd also got a considerable BE record which would have worked in his favour. Unfortunately (although I was glad as doubted he'd stand up to hunting) he went lame whilst trotting on the road due to a pre-existing split in his hoof so was returned to me.

Maybe your mare could turn her hand to hunting?. Surfaces and circles aren't good for SI injuries so maybe market her inva different direction?
Hope you get it sorted
 
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emilylou

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You have two choices, either disclose all vet history and price accordingly.
Or, if she is sound and in work and currently doing a job, advertise as she is and choose not to disclose all history.
It is unlikely she will be required to canter a circle on the lunge during a vetting. Usually its walk and trot only and then during the ridden assessment the horse is cantered under saddle.
I imagine a large number of horses are sold and pass vettings who have some vet history and still pass a 5 stage on the day.
I have a navicular horse who would not struggle to pass a vetting when at full fitness in the middle of winter (as long as no hoof XRs!), but luckily he will never be for sale.
The problem with non disclosure is that the purchaser would not be aware of the underlying issue so would not be able to manage accordingly, causing the horse to become lame again.
You just have to weigh up what is best for you and your horse. There is no legal obligation to disclose previous soundness issues unless directly asked.
If the horse is sound and in work I would probably not list vet history on the advert, price according to current market and then discuss with potential buyers in person/on the phone and be prepared to drop the price a good bit.
 

Goldenstar

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I would give buyers full disclosure and adjust the price if she’s an easy mare she will sell very easily .
There are lots of people including myself who have no problem with spending money to manage on going issues .
This horse is exactly the sort of horse I was looking for last year and could not quite find .
I don’t need at 62 a horse who will work forever and spending money to manage issues is not a problem .
Disclosure means the horse gets the type of buyer she needs .
 

alishaarrr

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Thanks for the replies so far ... just want to jump in and say that I would absolutely insist her history be disclosed to any potential buyers. Unethical not to, and I love this mare such that I would not want to see her end up in a situation where she's apt to do more than she should and ends up lame or kicked down the road again. Would not market her as a 1.20 showjumper or BE100 eventer and wouldn't want to sell her to someone who had those goals with her up front.
 

irishdraft

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I agree it would be very wrong not to disclose your mares issues most clued up buyers would ask for vet history anyway. Yes I know lots of people wouldn't disclose and equally lots of non clued up buyers but I think you wouldn't be happy with that sort of buyer anyway. Also I have had fairly recent vettings both 2 & 5 stage buying & selling and the vet has asked for the horse to be lunged in all paces so if I were the buyer and saw problems with canter I would not be impressed if you hadn't mentioned them. So probably best for your piece of mind to disclose & market accordingly and hope the right person appears is what I'd do for a start anyway.
 

Squeak

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Is it worth doing some work on her lunging to see if her canter improves and is an issue or not? Or possibly speaking to your vet? TBH it would be the thing that would put me off the most as a buyer because it's an unknown. All her other issues/ injuries sound like they're not currently issues but this sounds a complete grey area and would require a buyer to take a gamble.

If she is fine then it would allow you to keep a slightly higher price for her too as it would be one less issue. You could also ask your vet if she would pass a vetting as that would also increase her value and show that her issues are manageable.
 

Abacus

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Would she hunt, and is she safe enough to be RC allrounder? If you consider the jobs she could do, and decide what to sell her as, you can put the ad in the right place and many of the buyers for that kind of horse (esp the two types I mentioned) would be ok with some medical needs ongoing, if the price was right.
 

AandK

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I would speak to your vet re her historic SI issue, it seems this could be a likely cause for the canter issues on the lunge.
 

Kaylum

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I would not price too low but be prepared to drop. There are lots of dealers asking to buy horses at the moment. If they see she is priced low they will want her, they don't care about how she goes and that she cant hack out alone, they will make up stories that she is fine.
 
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