pressure halter-dually or richard maxwell

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zeffaroo

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i have recently purchased a two year old who appeared good as gold to start with...however couple of weeks in he has started to rear. first time was in field when i put an apple on floor and went to pat his neck...(not hand feeding to discouraging nipping at moment)
2nd time was just as finished putting fly spray on him...and hes normally fine with sprays all over...
3rd and 4th time was same day when was picking feet up. wasnt good with any feet initially but now can pick all four tied up and i decided to get my partner to hold him in field to do it...3 he was fine, soon as went to pick up back off side he went right up, so i told him to let go so didnt get hurt and i held him and he went straight back up again while i was saying no to him.
5th time was today while was lunging for 2nd time...only walk and stand in big circle with my friend walking on outside with lead rope too...he went to get mouthfull of grass but pulled him up before got any so he went right up...
they are not small rears, they are the full on vertical rears...i want to nip it in the bud straight away but not sure how or what to do.
been looking at the dualy halters from monty roberts and the richard maxwell one. how do they compare to the cheaper £6.99 ones with ropes and knots.
ideally id like one to use for all situations where he reared so far, so leading, standing, lunging...obviously not to wear in field.
any help appreciated..thanks

or any other ideas on how to stop him.
 
When my 2 year old started throwing her weight round and rearing, I got experts out on 2 separate occassions and she nearly killed them. If you are struggling with controller headcollars, put a bridle on - I did. She is now a normal 3 year old being backed.
 
I've got a dually, it's worked wonders with my TB who can be bargy/bolshy and strong to lead. Now we've learnt to use it properly he's much better. Wouldn't be without it.
 
thank you. i will definitely be buying that book...plan to order it off amazon tomorrow. i dont want him thinking he can get away with it...but as a friend told me to do but i havent is to 'batter him'
i dont want to break his trust and make him fear me...i want a close bond without me fearing him going up. first horse ive had to rear...but also my first two year old so all new to me. where did you go about finding experts to help. he has done it 5 times over 4 days, but not consectutively...its been over about 2 weeks so would be just my luck he wouldnt do it the day someone came to help me. he does it all in slow motion too though although i have already learnt his signs when hes about to go up...
 
FfionWinnie said:
First thing you need is Richard Maxwell's "Train your young horse". That will answer all your questions and a hundred more you haven't thought of yet :)
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I agree, ive had a dually and a plain Max's halter, used with a lage warmblood, the rope halter was by far the best with my boy, to use it safely and effectively the horse needs to be schooled to its use
 
Zeffaroo, I can't recommend either from personal experience as I have never used them, I use an alternative and cheaper gadget which works for me. There are many devotees of both on here though, so they obviously work for some people and horses.


Originally Posted by jinglejoys
Rope Halter and 12" line along with learning how to use it...and patience

Alyth said:
This.
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and so, what would you do with it when he does go up?

Pull him down? Around?

Do you use the halter before he's going up, as he is going up, or while he is up?

What do you do afterwards?

Just curious, I know what I do but am interested in what others do. :)
 
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Enfys said:
Zeffaroo, I can't recommend either from personal experience as I have never used them, I use an alternative and cheaper gadget which works for me. There are many devotees of both on here though, so they obviously work for some people and horses.


Originally Posted by jinglejoys
Rope Halter and 12" line along with learning how to use it...and patience



and so, what would you do with it when he does go up?

Pull him down? Around?

Do you use the halter before he's going up, as he is going up, or while he is up?

What do you do afterwards?

Just curious, I know what I do but am interested in what others do. :)
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I have a thin rope halter, assume the tug on the poll is annoying him, it is only applied when he is naughty, a short sharp shock which is self inflicted. He seems good to lunge in it, something he can be difficult about.
He has to be taught to use it by ground handling, if he is rearing, tug sharply, but he still needs education.
 
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Miss L Toe said:
I have a thin rope halter, assume the tug on the poll is annoying him, it is only applied when he is naughty, a short sharp shock which is self inflicted. He seems good to lunge in it, something he can be difficult about.
He has to be taught to use it by ground handling, if he is rearing, tug sharply, but he still needs education.
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Are sharp tugs really necessary when using a pressure halter?
 
I really like my dually and have had very good results with my big, stroppy four year old with it and the Monty Roberts ground work methods . But I suspect that the cheaper devices recommended here would be just as good as it is about body language and how you use it far more than the individual device.

Paula
 
i am not properly lunging him...he literally has lunge cavesson on and lunge line and someone walking round with him to walk and stand on large circle better for his joints than me constantly turning him in sharp circles. and its not regular. i have done it twice and over a week apart.


an update for the rearing too. when leading him today he reared up loads. and dangerously too on many occasions. he also reared when i tied him up which he hasnt done before and got his legs stuck. i honestly dont know what to do with him to stop it. would a pressure halter really work or make him worse?
 
You should never tug on a pressure halter. And nor do you need to. Please get the book I suggested and just read it. Leave the horse in the field til you do!

It will tell you what type of halter to get.

Meanwhile there are lots of instructional videos on YouTube. Just do a search for Richard Maxwell
 
He's very young, does he have plenty of turnout and other youngsters to play with? You wouldn't want to be overfacing him at this age. Time and patience is the key IMO.
 
I agree entirely with having firm lines, & respect, but you should also know why they are doing it. Sometimes it is just pushing their luck. But in this case it sounds more like he's confused & trying to tell you 'enough already'. In a few weeks sounds like he's done a lot & he just isn't keeping up. Stuff like picking out feet in the field when he's only done it for a few weeks is asking for trouble. There's an old saying that goes along the lines of an ok general winning his battles, but a truly good general picks his battles. And I think it applies to horses too. At the moment he's saying no cos he's got no choice, soon he'll say no cos he's learnt to. I'd leave him alone a bit now, forget the lunging, not push him on the handling, or be giving treats, & use a rope halter for safety. Then start again slowly, & have my eyes open for small signs he isn't keeping up before it escalates to rearing.
Not saying at all that sometimes it isn't just pushing their luck & a swift no isn't needed. I just don't think that's the case here. And I'd not bother lunging at all. Not sure at all why it would be needed as an alternative to sharp circles either.
 
On my phone so can't quote anyone. You should deffinatley NOT tie a horse up with a pressure halter on and when they rear you release the pressure. A pressure halter can be really cruel of not used correctly.
 
I've used both a rope halter and the Dually and have found that while both work well initially after a period of time my mare starts to ignore the rope halter and just pulls me round again while she still pays attention to the Dually and I usually don't actually need to school her with, having it on is enough for her to behave (she can be very strong and bolshy)

I think the biggest thing with both is doing some ground work in the school with them as you need to teach that certain response get them the release from the pressure - they don't just 'get it'.

With your horse whichever way you go I'd handle in a hard hat, gloves and with a long line (12-15 foot type) so that if/when he goes up you have some protection and can get out of the way whilst not letting go of a shorter lead rope.
For getting professional help the Intelliegent Horsemanship website (Kelly Marks/Monty Roberts) has details of their Recommended Assosiates on it who are trainers who've worked through certification in KM/MR techniques. It gives you some assurance about their level of competence and also should you have a problem with an RA you can go to the website and complain and they will investigate etc.

It sounds like your horse has been with you a little bit and has decided that now is the time to test how much he can get away with so I'd be wanting to nip this in the bud now. Good luck
 
I'd genuinely love someone to explain the idea of a long line for a rearing youngster. If its rearing in defiance surely the last thing you do is scuttle away to the end of the rope? Not only imo does that reinforce their view that you are backing away, but it leaves you with little control when they come down 15' away. Plus the risk of it getting tangled. Personally I'd want a rope just long enough that when they go up I can hold the end still but remain at the side in safety. And not in ops case as I think its confused rather than rude, but if a rope halter didn't work I'd use a stallion chain. No more harsh than a dually, & ime doesn't get accidently stuck as I've seen duallys do. Really not having a go, but I would like someone to explain the logic of using a longline in this situation.
 
cremedemonthe said:
Some of my customers have been using these with success

http://kempcontroller.com/kemp-controller.html
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Mine snapped very quickly, I felt they were cheap metal parts. I like the Monty Roberts but found the nose needed to. E readjusted which was a pain.

I then got a richard maxwell type halter from eBay and my Barry co. does respect it and we have stopped being dragged off to nice grass.
 
Miss L Toe said:
If he sticks his head up quick he gets the short jab, what else is he responding to?
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In practice there's a difference between letting the horse run himself into pressure and actively jerking or tugging on the rope. I thought you were talking about the second.

If you let the horse create the pressure himself you have some control over its severity by either following the movement and letting the pressure build more gradually or bracing so that the pressure comes on suddenly and harder. I don't think it is necessary to add to this by tugging as well; that seems like overkill and indeed can produce adverse reactions sometimes that impede rather than facilitate training. Anyway, I am glad this is confirmed by the official instructions for these devices.
 
If the horse is resisting what you want the pressure should be on. But it's pressure. Its not yanking its head off and it's not as much pressure as you can exert. It's mild pressure and you must move with the horse to continue to exert the same pressure until it moves forward even a tiny bit.

You should not use a pressure halter without the correct instruction.
 
wallykissmas said:
Mine snapped very quickly, I felt they were cheap metal parts. I like the Monty Roberts but found the nose needed to. E readjusted which was a pain.

I then got a richard maxwell type halter from eBay and my Barry co. does respect it and we have stopped being dragged off to nice grass.
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Shires started selling them and they were made on the cheap in China with inferior materials, since then they are now all made in the UK and made from quality materials, I've seen one and believe me these versions won't be easily broken!
 
You may be better off getting someone in who's experienced to help you with your youngster, rather than going out and buying something that could make your situation worse
 
For once I agree with amymay: a young horse in the wrong hands is danger to himself and others.
If he needs firm handling get someone experienced to handle him for you. Do as little as possible, it sounds as though things are going from bad to worse.
P.S. what was the best halter, as I say I have a rope halter which is ok for lunging, but he is still tricky to handle loading, not very happy to be submissive when ground handling
 
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