'Pretty' Outlines

P

Parkranger

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 May 2006
Messages
10,546
Visit site
I'm sure this has been done loads of times, but my lesson on Wednesday got me thinking.

Oscar has never felt 'rounded' to me and has a habit of looking pretty. People say he looks great but I know he's hollow hacked and going back to his showjumping days!

After a bit of fiddling with my seat, raising my hands and driving him forward more confidently, I found myself 'fiddling' with his mouth about 4 times only.....

Made me think that if I hadn't have had lessons I'd be struggling to pull him into a false outline and probably using draw reins and all sorts to achieve it. I felt him work amazingly for the first time and realised that his fake outline was due to me tipping forward and riding with my hands too low.

So do you think that training aids are too freely used nowadays when a good seat and thinking forward can make all the difference?
 
Outlines is a topic which a lot of c*ap is spoken about.

A correct outline varies according to a particular horses stage of training, fitness and muscling. Also the education of the rider. Nothing more, and nothing less.

People try shortcuts (gadgets) to get an outline, but if the foundations aren't there, ie, the horse has not been educated & muscled up to work properly... it will all come tumbling down. I don't think things are any worse than they ever have been in this respect.
 
[ QUOTE ]
So do you think that training aids are too freely used nowadays

[/ QUOTE ]Yes. I spent about a year in North Carolina bringing on babies, and at the neighbouring yard they were 'fast-tracking' their youngsters. (It was often their pleasure to stop by and tell us how many they'd sold this week or that.) Anywho, I would sometimes watch them working in their big arena and I have never seen horses tied up in so many gizmos, straps, pulleys, chains and whatnot, cranked this way and that and crushed into the 'perfect outline' - babies, mind; two, three and four year olds, mainly TB crosses. When prospective purchasers were on the way they'd be worked hard in all this crap until a couple of minutes before, then it'd all be whipped off, the buyer would arrive, have a toddle round, the horse would carry on at least for a few minutes all tucked up and looking 'great', and they'd be delighted. And then they'd get the poor thing home, it would all unravel round the seams and when the buyer complained, the seller's easy response would be that they were obviously riding the horse wrongly, and the seller would then offer to 'fix' the horse 'again' (for a hefty fee). Lucrative and despicable and one of the main reasons I was very glad to come back home, because unfortunately, in that area at least, our ranch was very much an exception and this neighbour was absolutely the norm.
 
I think it's ignorance and a lack of good instructors. TBH until you have actually felt what it is really like when a horse truly works over its back and carries you, its difficult to know what you are really aiming for. Thus is not necessarily people trying to take short cuts, just them quite understanding or ever getting the chance to 'feel' the difference, to know what they are aiming for.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's ignorance and a lack of good instructors. TBH until you have actually felt what it is really like when a horse truly works over its back and carries you, its difficult to know what you are really aiming for. Thus is not necessarily people trying to take short cuts, just them quite understanding or ever getting the chance to 'feel' the difference, to know what they are aiming for.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is one of the most sensible things anyone on here has ever said about the subject. Until you have a really good trainer, who knows when to say 'there, that's it', you have no idea what you are aiming for. Once you have felt the difference you can try and replicate it and reinforce the stuff you want.

I also think people are too quick to pass judgment on other people. It's very fashionable on here to run down people who use 'gadgets'.
 
[ QUOTE ]
A correct outline varies according to a particular horses stage of training, fitness and muscling. Also the education of the rider. Nothing more, and nothing less.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thank god there is some sanity out there. I watched a carl hester demo once and some dressage bod was going on about how awful carl was riding, all long, low and loose. The horse was three and a slow maturing warmblood. Imediatly after the audience member said it carl said "some of you may think this is horendus but this is how a horse of this age should be working, nose infront of the vertical, engaged and level showing his natural expression in his paces." Good on him.

I think everyone should have a go on a true school master. I mean it makes you feel like a right bleb, you'll be going sidewase 90% of the time and doing travers/ halfpasses and all sorts but when you get it right, you feel what should be happening. I rode a lovely hanovarian school master who was in his mid 20's but had competed up to advanced (ok not a ture grand prix school master but close enough) and like i said, most of the lesson was sideways, once i eventually go him going in a straight line the instructor asked me to try for a few strides of medium trot so i did... and covered the long diagonal in about 3 strides! But in those three strides it all came together, thats how its suppose to feel, been trying to replicate it ever since! Good quality lessons can never be replicated
 
In answer to your question, yes! I think a lot of people fail to see the difference between having the head in the "right" position and having a horse working correctly and imo a horse can only be worked correctly if everything is doing the right thing and this is best achieved through the riders seat and legs - the hands are there as indictors imo. When I lunge I just use a simple bungee that acts as an elastic contact running from the bit to the d's on the saddle and mimics the contact that a rider offers. Being elastic is doesn't force and allows the horse to stretch. On my youngster I occasionally pop some very, very loose side reins as she has worked out that the bungee is elastic so she can if she feels that way inclined just stretch it more and more and I don't want her trying that with me as she'll end up pulling me out the saddle! So the side reins just limit how much she can stretch the elastic - for 99% of the time they are washing lines but just occasionally they act as a reminder. I wouldn't use anything else now.

You should try and get yourself a copy of "Classical vs Modern Dressage" as it is brilliant at explaining these things and is a very enlightening book to read.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Until you have a really good trainer, who knows when to say 'there, that's it', you have no idea what you are aiming for. Once you have felt the difference you can try and replicate it and reinforce the stuff you want.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think that is also so true, but sadly I know of a lot of trainers who do a lot of teaching and can't even do that - they watch the head and as soon as it "gives" they tell the rider its right - yes you want the horse soft over the poll but that, imo, is not what the instructor should be watching. That said, there are some brilliant instructors out there so I guess its just finding a good one.
 
Like Mary Wanless told us... Riding is basically a lot of "got it..."..."lost it again" moments - the more you progress the more you try to string together as many of the "got it" moments as opposed to the "lost it" moments! LOL!

The first time I felt elevation on H was a moment that I won't EVER forget - it's like riding a speed boat - so light in front and powerful behind - oooh it's FAB - I spend all my time trying to do it again! haha!
grin.gif

Kate x
 
Quite interesting reading these replies - I thought I was going to get flamed for being a softy!

For example, at the show today, Oscar fell out of canter a few times - looking back at the pics it was when I was leaning forward and blocking him......the other day napping, was a stone in his frog.....

At the show today there was a gorge bay mare in the working hunter class and it was going really badly - then I saw the owner flapping her arms around like a chicken to get a gallop. I'm not saying she couldn't ride, but surely a few lessons would help her get the momentum without flapping?

I think, as a rider who didn'thave lessons as a kid, I'm just getting so much out of understand the 'mechanics' of riding and I do like the way that people now teach - very Mary Wanless - all seat and not much fussing in the mouth....
 
i think alot of people are far too fixated on getting the horse's head tucked in quickly without paying any attention to what the back end is doing.....in the show ring you will see alot of ponies with their heads stuck to their chest, but not working through, the end result is a tight sore pony...
 
Couldn't agree more Lilym.....it just shocks me that people don't pick up on this. I think that I'm quite a novice rider, but I got a physio out as I knew that oscar wasn't working round properly and was just tucking his head in. He's better now but still needs a bit more work......
 
Essentially, there's too many untrained or incorrectly trained eyes in this country. If no-one shakes up a change from the top then we can never hope to see improvement.
The number of instructors who have no idea what correct should look like is shocking and this creates a ripple effect. Same applies for dressage judges, unless the way we train our judges and instructors changes, the lower levels are going to be just the same. I agree with those who have said that unless you've felt it it is very difficult. I also think that unless you've seen it and acknowledged how much better it is, it is very difficult to change your opinion.

Even on here, I frequently see pictures of people's instructors riding and despair.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top