Preventative measures navicular

[18hhOlls&Me]

My boy is sound
and has been (touch wood) for years. a previous vet with his old owner diagnosed him with possible navicular as he went lame for 2 days but that was years ago- a vet since thought that it may be type of the syndrome that can be managed with excellent hoof care and shoeing and twice a year injections which he has. He is happy in work, myself and my trainer watch him like hawks but so far we’ve been very lucky. I’m very careful about his nutrition and weight and am always filming him move for any signs at all....Like Liz D above it doesn’t seem to be causing any problems and I’ve read a lot of research about the increase in understanding navicular syndrome and how different types can be managed very specifically it that need arrives. But I want to know if anyone has worked with PREVENTATIVE measures other than the obvious (good diet, specialist farriery etc) such as a supplement that actually works- something that really effectively preserves hoof structure. Can any one recommend anything so I can have my boy happy working as long as possible before he is retired to be a companion to a new horse.....thanks all x

 

[PurBee]

Here’s an interesting article about navicular that may help your understanding of the syndrome:

https://www.hoofrehab.com/NavicularSyndrome.html

There isn’t a supplement that can be given, when the initial problems with navicular issues being caused due to weak caudal development and use, thrushy frogs, toe first landings.

 

[I'm Dun]

Here’s an interesting article about navicular that may help your understanding of the syndrome:

https://www.hoofrehab.com/NavicularSyndrome.html

There isn’t a supplement that can be given, when the initial problems with navicular issues being caused due to weak caudal development and use, thrushy frogs, toe first landings.

Not a navicular specific supplement but a no iron, high copper and zinc mineral balancer would help with horn growth and quality and would be a good start

 

[18hhOlls&Me]

Not a navicular specific supplement but a no iron, high copper and zinc mineral balancer would help with horn growth and quality and would be a good start

Here’s an interesting article about navicular that may help your understanding of the syndrome:

https://www.hoofrehab.com/NavicularSyndrome.html

Thank you Purbee, I’ll add it to my folder on my iMac which I’m getting th

There isn’t a supplement that can be given, when the initial problems with navicular issues being caused due to weak caudal development and use, thrushy frogs, toe first landings.

Thanks, that’s fantastic, I’ll download and add to my list of reading materials!! It looks good, thank you!! X

 

[18hhOlls&Me]

QUOTE="I'm Dun, post: 14651161, member: 153324"]Not a navicular specific supplement but a no iron, high copper and zinc mineral balancer would help with horn growth and quality and would be a good start[/QUOTE]

Sounds good to me- I’ll have a look
and try it out thanks Dun x
-

 

[ycbm]

The best preventative is to return to the old days when horses were not shod year round. Hunters had their shoes off in summer, eventers, show jumpers etc had their shoes off in winter. The epidemic of navicular syndrome started, I reckon, when year round shoeing became normal.
.

 

[Orangehorse]

Agree totally with the above. Time out of shoes.

 

[Reacher]

There is a nice article here -

https://thehorse.com/181721/bowker-navicular-issues-begin-earlier-than-we-think/

And if you don’t mind a dry scientific article there is a paper here about the trim to encourage the horse to grow a healthy hoof
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1751-0813.2011.00806.x

 

[tristar]

we have had 3yr olds with n s

 

[Casey76]

The main cause of navicular syndrome is low heel and long toe which decreases the digital cushion.

Sympathetic trimming plus correct movement to encourage heel first landing to develop digital cushion.

Any frog infections need to be addressed to promote the heel first landing and fully weighing of the caudal aspect of the foot.

Imho it isn’t something which can be addressed while the horse is shod, as the heels and frog do not get the correct simulation when they are raised off the ground.

 

[Birker2020]

The main cause of navicular syndrome is low heel and long toe which decreases the digital cushion.

Sympathetic trimming plus correct movement to encourage heel first landing to develop digital cushion.

Any frog infections need to be addressed to promote the heel first landing and fully weighing of the caudal aspect of the foot.

Imho it isn’t something which can be addressed while the horse is shod, as the heels and frog do not get the correct simulation when they are raised off the ground.

This isn't always the case, my horse who I had pts one month ago due to navicular and coffin joint arthritis was shod by the same farrier for 17 years and hoof balance upon x-ray over the years had always shown excellent balance. 2 weeks before she was pts she had another x-ray due to not getting better from a suspected abscess and her navicular was completely arthritic with a large bony spur at the rear which made me decide to pts as she was still lame on 2 bute a day although we did try putting the shoe back on to see if it made any difference which it didn't. I never used to trot her on the roads, save for a few strides to get round a tight bend, or to pass something. If I did trot other in those circumstances it would only ever be for a few strides going along a road with a hill.

Sometimes horses are just predisposed to arthritis the same as humans are and there is no rhyme or reason why this happens. A friends horse was struck down with juvenile arthritis which was also present in his navicular and coffin joints and he was pts aged 7 although he was diagnosed three years before.

 

[ester]

Healthy heel isn't about hoof balance though.

 

[Red-1]

My last 3 horses have spent at last some of the year barefoot, I am used to seeing healthy heels, plump frogs, no thrush.

Looking at horses for sale is a bleak reminder that strong, healthy feet aren't universal.

I agree that even if balance is OK, often feet are not fully functional when they have thrush and are shod.

 

[Casey76]

This isn't always the case, my horse who I had pts one month ago due to navicular and coffin joint arthritis was shod by the same farrier for 17 years and hoof balance upon x-ray over the years had always shown excellent balance. 2 weeks before she was pts she had another x-ray due to not getting better from a suspected abscess and her navicular was completely arthritic with a large bony spur at the rear which made me decide to pts as she was still lame on 2 bute a day although we did try putting the shoe back on to see if it made any difference which it didn't. I never used to trot her on the roads, save for a few strides to get round a tight bend, or to pass something. If I did trot other in those circumstances it would only ever be for a few strides going along a road with a hill.

Sometimes horses are just predisposed to arthritis the same as humans are and there is no rhyme or reason why this happens. A friends horse was struck down with juvenile arthritis which was also present in his navicular and coffin joints and he was pts aged 7 although he was diagnosed three years before.

You can have a well balanced foot which still sports crushed and underrun heels with no digital cushion and frog collapse.

 

[SEL]

Mine has always been barefoot, trimmed professionally and x rays showed them to be balanced - but with changes to the navicular bone

She did injur the suspensory on the opposite hind in a soft surface a couple of years before and the vet thinks she did a soft tissue injury in that problematic right fore at the same time.

So only work on good surfaces would be my advice.

 

[ycbm]

This isn't always the case, my horse who I had pts one month ago due to navicular and coffin joint arthritis was shod by the same farrier for 17 years and hoof balance upon x-ray over the years had always shown excellent balance. 2 weeks before she was pts she had another x-ray due to not getting better from a suspected abscess and her navicular was completely arthritic with a large bony spur at the rear which made me decide to pts as she was still lame on 2 bute a day although we did try putting the shoe back on to see if it made any difference which it didn't. I never used to trot her on the roads, save for a few strides to get round a tight bend, or to pass something. If I did trot other in those circumstances it would only ever be for a few strides going along a road with a hill.

Sometimes horses are just predisposed to arthritis the same as humans are and there is no rhyme or reason why this happens. A friends horse was struck down with juvenile arthritis which was also present in his navicular and coffin joints and he was pts aged 7 although he was diagnosed three years before.

Navicular syndrome is not commonly an arthritic problem, more usually a soft tissue injury. One can normally be rehabbed, the other only treated.
.

 

[Michen]

I also make sure my horse (s) have some time out of shoes every year. Not always as long as I would like. When Boggle was rehabbed he had a full year out of shoes, I didn’t really see much change in his feet though (they are pretty decent already) but what was interesting was that he would usually go quite upright, even slightly broken forward, but this time he kept them “normal”.

 

[sbloom]

My last 3 horses have spent at last some of the year barefoot, I am used to seeing healthy heels, plump frogs, no thrush.

Looking at horses for sale is a bleak reminder that strong, healthy feet aren't universal.

I agree that even if balance is OK, often feet are not fully functional when they have thrush and are shod.

It's one of the most painful parts of my job.

 

[Orangehorse]

I am sure mine would have developed navicular if he hadn't been barefoot for some time. I could see him walking across the paddock and something didn't look right, but I didn't know what it was, he was also terribly clumsy on his feet, almost as if his brain and feet weren't that well connected.

Well, to cut a very long story short, and with several dead ends along the way, I know now that he was landing flat footed/ toe first. After a slip up on concrete I had his shoes taken off and I did ride him barefoot, or with boots for some time, used two or three different trimmers and it certainly meant that I probably missed work and competitions that I should have taken him to. In fact, he was sound all the time, once his rehab was finished, it was me who was in a state. I realised that I rarely looked at the whole horse, just his feet!

Then life got in way and I realised that I could not spare the time to put the horse first, which meant riding him frequently to keep his feet in good condition, and I had his shoes put back on. At 23 his problems are not foot related.

He was rather pigeon toed and it was fascinating to see how his feet altered to support the horse that was above as he also has weird leg conformation too.

There is a much longer story, but I have tried to keep it brief. I was anxious about navicular as had a friend with a 5 year old successful show horse that was PTS before we had heard about barefoot, correct trimming, thrush, etc.

 

[ycbm]

I was anxious about navicular as had a friend with a 5 year old successful show horse that was PTS before we had heard about barefoot, correct trimming, thrush, etc.

One of the worst things about this journey, since MRI showed that most "navicular" was soft tissue injury not progressive bone degradation, is how many people are condemned to sit and wonder if the vet advice they got at the time to have their lame horses PTS was correct. I lost a horse to it, not PTS but retired with an insurance payout, who in retrospect would probably have been absolutely fine with a short barefoot rehab.

I can't think of any other medical advance in the horse world where a readily available and zero cost solution could have saved so many horses in past years, if only we had known. It's very sad.
.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Apart from time out of shoes, a good relationship with an excellent footcare professional ( I prefer to use a farrier) is one of the best weapons against the development of navicular syndrome.

 

[Gloi]

I can't think of any other medical advance in the horse world where a readily available and zero cost solution could have saved so many horses in past years, if only we had known. It's very sad.
.

Yet still the first reaction by vets and farriers to a horse with collapsing heels is to get bar shoes put on

 

[ycbm]

Yet still the first reaction by vets and farriers to a horse with collapsing heels is to get bar shoes put on

It's desperately disappointing after well over ten years of this stuff being known, isn't it?
.

 

[sbloom]

The number of customers where I've mentioned deteriorating HPA/underrun heels and they've simply gone to the farrier who's told them everything's fine. Depressing.

 

[HelenBack]

It's desperately disappointing after well over ten years of this stuff being known, isn't it?
.

I think vets' attitudes in my area at least are starting to change, albeit probably too slowly and certainly not among all vets. I've had full support from my vets in going barefoot with my horse and when I first mentioned it the vet said they'd seen a lot of success with this approach. I don't think they would have suggested it themselves though but then again I suspect most customers want a quick fix, which would generally be shoes, and wouldn't consider barefoot anyway. Certainly when I've tried to suggest it to some owners on my yard they've just dismissed the idea instantly.

The number of customers where I've mentioned deteriorating HPA/underrun heels and they've simply gone to the farrier who's told them everything's fine. Depressing.

I've been pondering about this a lot lately. Like most owners who ended up with a horse with foot problems I am now obsessed and find myself looking at the hooves of shod horses on the yard and generally being pretty horrified by what I see. We definitely have some rubbish farriers who just don't care in our area but there are also some who are really conscientious and I would say want to do a good job. And yet a lot of the horses they shoe still have very unhealthy hooves in one way or another. Why is this? Is it just that shod hooves are generally unhealthy and so the farrier doesn't see it anymore, or do they see it but perceive that the owner wouldn't be interested in doing anything about it, or something else entirely? I don't get it really.

 

[sbloom]

I've been pondering about this a lot lately. Like most owners who ended up with a horse with foot problems I am now obsessed and find myself looking at the hooves of shod horses on the yard and generally being pretty horrified by what I see. We definitely have some rubbish farriers who just don't care in our area but there are also some who are really conscientious and I would say want to do a good job. And yet a lot of the horses they shoe still have very unhealthy hooves in one way or another. Why is this? Is it just that shod hooves are generally unhealthy and so the farrier doesn't see it anymore, or do they see it but perceive that the owner wouldn't be interested in doing anything about it, or something else entirely? I don't get it really.

Low expectations is possibly part of it, but fundamentally shoes shouldn't be on for more than 9 months a year, then we get away with them. It's how it used to be, and we seem to have forgotten. I follow Progressive Equine Services, The Equine Documentalist and Mark Johnson Farrier - Another Way? on FB with interest, as until these people started their current paths I was massively against shoeing at all, though in my job I generally had to be quiet/careful about it.

 

[HelenBack]

Low expectations is possibly part of it, but fundamentally shoes shouldn't be on for more than 9 months a year, then we get away with them. It's how it used to be, and we seem to have forgotten. I follow Progressive Equine Services, The Equine Documentalist and Mark Johnson Farrier - Another Way? on FB with interest, as until these people started their current paths I was massively against shoeing at all, though in my job I generally had to be quiet/careful about it.

Yes I expect telling people their horses' feet are a mess and the shoes need to come off isn't the best route to success in your job!

Shouldn't farriers be telling owners to get their horses out of shoes for an annual break then? Maybe it's a similar thing to you whereby if they were to do that they would probably just lose business as a lot of owners would go elsewhere.

I follow Mark Johnson and occasionally have a look at the Equine Documentalist. I think have seen Mark say things along the lines of whatever he tried when he did shoe a horse he would continue to lose it heels to running forwards and he couldn't seem to stop it happening. That might have been someone else, I'm not sure now. At least whoever it was admitted it and tried something different though whereas I guess most farriers just carry on regardless. Hmm.

 

[sbloom]

Maybe it's a similar thing to you whereby if they were to do that they would probably just lose business as a lot of owners would go elsewhere.

It's a tough choice because we generally feel we do at least as good a job as anyone else, often of course we have to believe we're doing the best job possible, and if they go elsewhere because of our principles the horse will suffer. Is that ego? I don't know, but as long as we're asking questions, learning, challenging, then I think it's okay to think we're doing a darned good job.