Prize givings — mounted or unmounted?

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Sarahgorrie

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In between the medal celebrations, there was talk at Windsor European championships over prize givings. In the past, riders have ridden their lap of honour, but after Wednesday's team competition they received their medals and did their lap of honour on foot. Some riders expressed concern about their horses' safety in the atmosphere of the arena with everybody cheering — hence the change of form.

Do you think competitors should be required to ride the traditional lap of honour? Do you think it's important for sponsors to have their sashes displayed on horseback — the images the broader media want to capture? As an audience, would you be disappointed not to be able to cheer the top horses, only their jockeys?

Or is it more important that the riders do not risk getting carted and that the horses don't risk injury, or become so traumatised by the experience that they then do not perform at their best the next day?
 
ever since poor Rembrandt got the kick that ended his career at a prize-giving, i've not liked them, tbh. also, King William never really settled in the sj again after a prize-giving.
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i think it's fine to have the prize-givings on foot, and if the sponsors and press want pics of horse and rider in sash etc etc, why not take those later when the atmosphere is quieter, that way everyone gets what they want, and the horses don't risk getting traumatised. of course, it depends hugely on the individual horse, many cope absolutely fine with the hullaballo, but it seems a shame to upset those that don't.
FEI Code of Conduct Rule 1 - the horse's welfare should be paramount at all times.
 
I think its a shame when prize givings aren't mounted its not quite the same but can see the arguments against it. But it is often the horses not the jockeys that the owners truly love.

Is it because dressage horses or eventers even do not start getting used to it at a very young age in comparison to the show jumpers?- some of whom I know can't cope with it either but are often quite unfazed by being adorned with wreaths etc (which always surprises me)

could there perhaps be some sort of opt out for horses unable to cope, I know some show jumpers will take in a different horse. We could supply the riders with alternative bombproof horses (now that could be interesting!)
 
Totally agree with what Kerilli says. I saw the eventing and dressage prize givings in Hong Kong and just felt so sorry for the poor horses who had to stand around in that heat and atmosphere for the length of the prize giving
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(i also felt sorry for the grooms who were trying to cling onto some of the horses
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!!) Hardly any of the horses looked happy in the atmosphere, surely that should be the most important thing?
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I can understand it from both points of view really, but I think I come down on the side of mounted for two reasons,

these horses are really well trained to the highest levels and imo should be able to cope with a bit of cheering, the SJer's do.

secondly it is a real anti climax for the spectator, the best atmosphere is when the prizes have been given and its an opportunity to celebrate success and that success includes the horse.
 
Agree with LHS - it's about partnership and unmounted prizegivings can never successfully celebrate what dressage is all about.
 
Having watched the prize giving at Badminton for umpteen years now, I would say that 90% of the horses are used to the crowds cheering by that stage, what upsets them most is when the band start up after the winner has received the trophy, that's when the horses tend to rear up, fall over, have a buck and lash out and it's not surprising really, they are completely startled by it! I have seen a couple of horses rear up and go back over because they were completely startled
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There are some horses that just cannot cope with the cheering and in this case, riders tend to swap them for the prize giving.

But my answer is, most definately mounted but if a horse is known to not like crowds, then the rider should be permitted to have a deputy ready.
 
There are some top horses in each discipline who get very upset by the band for some reason, while others remain completely unfazed. Most riders in parades before big classes ride substitute horses, but to me it doesn't seem appropriate to do so for the prize-giving ceremony of a major class. Why not give the riders the option of going in with their medal-winning horse or unmounted? I suppose it might look a bit messy if some have their horses and others don't!
 
wizoz, you'd have thought by now that someone horsey could have explained to the band that they need to start up gently and gradually increase the volume, for the sake of the horses! oh, and leave the clashing cymbals out too!
 
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Do you think competitors should be required to ride the traditional lap of honour? Do you think it's important for sponsors to have their sashes displayed on horseback — the images the broader media want to capture? As an audience, would you be disappointed not to be able to cheer the top horses, only their jockeys?

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You cannot require riders to do it. If they refused, would you strip them of their placing and prize?
 
No! You can't stop the mounted prizegivings - it's the most entertaining part.
I remember the trauma caused to the dressage riders at Hartpury one year (I forget which competition) when they were informed they would have to hack to the far side from the stables, to their prize giving on the grass arena.
The attrition rates en route were...er...impressive.
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I thought that in dressage too riders could opt to ride a different horse? I'm sure I have seen somebody (maybe Anky??) on a different horse for the prize giving.

In an ideal world, of course it would be better if all riders could ride their horses at the prize giving, but if this is not going to happen then I would prefer to see them on foot rather than on a different horse.

On a similar note, in the spring there was an auction at my yard and the horses were led in-hand rather than ridden. Of course this was anti-climatic in a way, because the horses could not produce those beautiful extensions or passage they would have produced (purely because of the excitement!) had they been ridden, but it's precisely the same principle - the horse's welfare first and foremost.
 
I may be completely wrong so pls don't shoot me down but can showjumpers wear those ear/fly veils and underneath them have ear plugs etc but dressage horses are not allowed these.
I know a showjumper that says it is the norm to plug their horses ears with cotton wool etc and then wear the veils. It's not illegal for them but I know as we all do that dressage has much stricter rules on wearing boots/bandages whilst actually doing their test so maybe thats why showjumpers are a lot more calm in the prize giving etc.
 
i think they should have prize givings mounted, sj'ers do. i think its nicer for the crowd to appauld the horse and rider, not just the rider. ive seen some riders whose horses dont like the bands so they ride another horse for the prize giving.
 
For entertainment value they should have the option of either:

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mounted prizegiving on their own horse
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mounted prize giving on supplied equine (preferrably a donkey or even pantomine horse as that would spice up proceedings even more)

On a more serious note, I think they should have the option to either bring their horse or not as they prefer. As someone else said, horse welfare is paramount and publicity pics can be taken later when it is quieter.
 
Totilas seemed completely happy with a mounted prize giving but how many horses have a temperament like him. Alf was wired, and Anky came in on a lead rein. Parzival looked close to loosing it. In fairness, if you owned any of these horses would you risk them?
 
I agree with half step - I wouldnt risk a highly sensitive and trained dressage horse for the sake of people getting to give them a clap! you can clap at the end of the test and tbh the horse would more than likely prefer not to go into a lap of honour.
 
To add a different perspective - at western shows the prize giving is mounted but there is no lap of honour. Even the reining horses are pretty chilled about it, and there is usually a lot of whooping, cheering and stamping.
Maybe a calm walk in and out would help rather than a lap of honour - I have known even seasoned show horses get a bit wild at this part.
But on a general level - surely riders should get their horses acclimatised to cheering, clapping etc as part of their training?
Yes, photos etc with sashes could be done afterwards but sponsors also like a bit of recognition in front of the crowds, and with the financial climate as it is, we need to keep sponsors happy!
 
I agree horse welfare (and human safety!) is paramount - but should a horse, however good their paces, movements, etc, be allowed to compete and keep winning in dressage if they can't cope with cheering, crowd noise, etc? Dressage means training: it's all about training a horse. If it can't be trained to accept the presentation, then maybe it should find another job. And I doubt if John Whitaker would have asked to be led in when Milton kept rearing and leaping about during the prize giving.
 
Marciamac, John encouraged Milton to rear during the prize givings, he realised the horse had an aptitude and carefully encouraged it because it was such a crowd pleaser (huge diff between a balanced, controlled rear and a hysterical horse throwing itself in the air, obv!)
i HATE laps of honour, fine if you're in front (and no muppet overtakes you out of control) but otherwise really not fun.
i don't like clapping at the end of a test either, surely horsey people worldwide could come up with something silent-ish to register approval without, quite literally, frightening the horses!
although, at Kingswood years ago the Bechtolsheimers had horses there and were really encouraging everyone to applaud and whoop loudly, to get their horses used to it. hmm, i guess most horses can get used to just about anything eventually, but i agree with Halfstep, if Alf or Totilas was mine, i wouldn't want to risk them getting very upset or injured.
 
I don't think John encouraged Milton to rear: I saw him interviewed once and he said he hated the prize giving when he was on Milton because he knew he would act up. And as I also saw him nearly come off once, I doubt he did this for fun.
 
You will all shoot me down in flames, but at the Pony Club Championships it was a mounted presentation and all horses and ponies were totally well behaved. The lap of honour was lovely, but it was done under toally controlled conditions. They are an abject lesson to the likes of Anky etc, and yes it was for dressage at intermediate level.
 
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I agree horse welfare (and human safety!) is paramount - but should a horse, however good their paces, movements, etc, be allowed to compete and keep winning in dressage if they can't cope with cheering, crowd noise, etc? Dressage means training: it's all about training a horse.

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Yes- they should be allowed to keep winning seeing as it's their test they are judged on not their reactions to applause and prize givings lol. Anyways some of those horses look so sensitive and powerful, I'd not want to risk it if any of them were mine!
 
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I don't think John encouraged Milton to rear: I saw him interviewed once and he said he hated the prize giving when he was on Milton because he knew he would act up. And as I also saw him nearly come off once, I doubt he did this for fun.

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John most certainly did used to encourage Milton to do his half rear/half leaps in the prizegiving cermonies. He says soin the Milton 'Simply the Best' video
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thanks Rambo, i'm sure i read it somewhere, i knew i hadn't made it up! i suspect that John encouraged the 1/2 rears and leaps because it was an outlet for Milton's exuberance, and much safer than trying to make him stand still!
TheoryX, with all due respect, i know what you are saying but you are comparing utterly different types of horse. we are talking about the top competition horses in the world, many of them bred for generations for huge athleticism and expression, as demonstrated so admirably when they are in the ring. an average rider couldn't hack down the road on some of them if their life depended on it! so, comparing Pony Club horses to the Salineros of the world is really not fair imho, i know they're all 'horses' but that's like saying a pug and a greyhound are both dogs and therefore will react the same to things etc!
must admit though, having said all that, i still think Anky's horses should be able to perform a reasonable halt in a test, it is a requirement!
 
I quite agree Kerilli, I can't see too many pony club kids coping with the Salineros of this world. How many learner drivers would you let drive an F1 car!!! There is such a fine balance in top class horses between the power and expression and blowing a fuse that while they are working they understand the concentration (even then there is often no margin for error) but in a prize giving they are not focused on the rider in the same way. This is when they become unruly as they are not on the aids and under control. Submission is not subservience so when the mind is not occupied with work it is free to express itself in other ways!!! Standing still is the riskiest thing to do with an explosive horse. By nature they run from uncertainty. There is no way you can replicate atmosphere created by stands and a big crowd at home so the only training for "the big occasion" is when you get there. Please don't knock these riders for wanting to preserve their horses sanity - it is fragile enough anyway, otherwise they wouldn't be sharp/sensitive enough to be top class.
 
I haven't seen the John Whitaker video, but I wonder if he said that after the fact. He definitely did not say so in the interview I saw on TV, at the time Milton was competing. (I also interviewed him once, at his home, and he never said anything about that.)
 
Has anyone read My Horses, My Teachers by Alois Podhajsky? There is a section on it where he describes riding into a dark arena in the spotlight to receive a prize on one of the SRS stallions. What he did not know was that the prize was to be given by two children, who would descend into the arena in a helicopter!!! The heli came down, in the dark, and Podhajsky applied really firm leg and hand to tell the stallion to keep still, although he was trembling and frightened by the noise. The heli landed, the children came out bearing cumbersome prizes, and Podhajsky approached them in passage. He collected the prizes, passaged away and exited the arena with reins, whip, bicorn hat and two big prizes under his arms, and was met by his groom at the gate. He just about kept control!

Now, owning a Lipizzaner myself I can safely say that they are very sharp, clever and probably more reactive than *most* warmbloods. That stallion was undoubtedly more highly trained than a GP dressage horse, as he was schooled to do the airs as well as all the GP moves. So if he can cope with a helicopter in the dark, why can't the WBs cope with a simple prize giving in the daylight?! I agree that attention should be paid to safety of the horses, and the prize giving should not be a lengthy affair. But really, all you are asking the horse to do is stand still with a bit of applause (agree that loud bands are just a stupid idea!!). Yes, the horses are sensitive, yes, they are highly trained, but surely that should make it easier to teach them that there is nothing to fear from a prize giving? JMHO anyway. I'd be mortified if my horse behaved like a complete twit in front of loads of people.
 
Having videoed dressage all year at Hickstead, it does not surprise me that we have this debate. The thing to remember is that certainly in the UK in non-Championship events there is rarely prize givings for dressage due to the length of time it takes to complete a class (often many hours). Therefore the horses have little experience until they are at the higher grades.

The core issue is these are "flight animals" and the loud whooping and cheering is probably inappropriate and unnecesary. Why can we not have more award givings for dressage so the horses get use to it from an earlystage. BUT the crowds exercise due restraint and are reminded of this before the awards are given. Then the fans see their horse heroes, the crucial sponsors get their shots and the are better prepared and more accepting of the activity.

Some horses just love it - anyone seeing Morelands Totillas at an awards giving can see him enjoying the attention! No wonder he joinned in for the prize giving .... he really is the greatest!

Andy
 
there is absolutely no reason why prize givings should not be mounted. At the end of the day, show horses have to behave with load music in evening performances and spot lights and god knows what else. How do they remain so calm? ear plugs and practice at home.

Theres no reason why any other discipline cannot do the same thing. I know ear plugs are against rules in dressage tests, but really can't see why they aren't allowed at prize givings.

Infact at some shows, if you do not show up for the parade of winners, you forfeit all prize money and trophies
 
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