Problem picking up

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NoseyPosey

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When I first went to see my Shire with a view to buy, I was told she was "foot shy" which seeing as everything else seemed great about her, didn't feature as a reason not to have her.

As decribed in another of my posts, I decided to see what my farrier suggested about the best way to deal with her feet but we discovered that she may have had mites which could have been a factor and he suggested I treat that first before trying again.

I've been regularly brushing her feathers & shampooing them with a dedicated shampoo which has made her a lot better about me being around her feet & seems to have dealt with the mites but whenever I try to actually get her to pick any of her feet up she either moves her feet away or stamps if I try to persevere.

I've always been taught to run my hand down the back of a horses leg to let them know what I'm doing whilst saying "pick up" and then cup the hand round the front which has always worked fine on any of our other horses, including a yearling but I'm wondering if there are any other ways of dealing with a horse that won't pick up?

The farrier is due again tomorrow so I'm hoping he'll have some ideas as I'm sure he'll have other awkward horses on his rounds and he's used to big horses as he's an Army farrier so should I just wait to see what he says? Obviously my Shire's feet are a lot larger than the others but would this be a problem in itself?
 
It took my youngster a long while to accept his feet being picked up, but I just hung on to the foot waving in the air and tried to stop him throwing himself on the floor :rolleyes: and eventually he realised it wasn't worth the effort and is now fine with anyone handling his feet and legs.
I would also try and gain your horses trust in other ways- its a scary thing to hand over your only escape mechanism to an unknown human!
 
If its mites I'm afraid a medicated shampoo won't kill them off completely. It might sooth the itch a bit but it won't get rid of them. You'll need either dectomax injections or a frontline treatment from the vets.
I don't think mites would cause her to be 'foot shy' though - my mare had mites when I bought her and she was almost like a dog giving you its paw, trying to get me to itch her legs for her!
I think she's most likely had either a bad experience, or little handling of her feet because she's been labelled as naughty with them, so no one has done much other than the essentials with them. Start from scratch, as you would with an unhandled youngster, and build up her confidence. x
 
"If its mites I'm afraid a medicated shampoo won't kill them off completely. It might sooth the itch a bit but it won't get rid of them. You'll need either dectomax injections or a frontline treatment from the vets."

From my experience this is not the case. My super hairy horse arrived having been with mites for years - complete with dreadful crumpled skin as a result. I was advised by vet to use a special shampoo - super expensive of course - so found that Selsun ( for humans) contains exactly the same stuff. Use it diluted and leave on for 10 minutes before rinsing off well. I repeated this a couple of weeks later and have had no problems since. I do repeat the shampoo when he has a general bath. You can also keep the mites at bay using a powder that is chemical free and used by poultry keepers to eliminate mites; this is useful to shake over the bedding too. Its called Diatomaceous Earth (DE). Google it and buy some to shake onto the legs or body of your horse. It is super and is also recommended for worming so not a nasty dangerous chemical. Which of course Frontline is, and it is not licensed for mites - just fleas - and not in horses anyway.

I managed to get my horse to lift feet when he was eating and then it just got easier. Best when they are distracted?
 
I think clicker training can be really useful in this sort of situation as it helps to form positive associations which replace the negative ones that she currently has with having her feet picked up. Like all animals horses work better with positive reinforcement - if she learns that picking her feet up = nice things then she will be much happier about it all round.

Personally I would start off by teaching a behaviour that she doesn't have so much difficulty with, something like lowering her head for the headcollar or stepping back, so that she can get the hang of clicker training without the stress of facing something she really doesn't like. Then once she has got the idea you can move on to working on her feet. There's loads of info online, but basically once she has the idea of the clicker you will touch her hoof and if she's calm then click and treat, then run your hand down and if she lifts it even a tiny bit then click and treat, and build it up from there.

It takes time and patience but in my opinion is a better long term solution as rather than a battle of wills it becomes a positive experience for both of you.
 
I was going to say, the shampoo is supposed to be precisely for mites & lice and it certainly got rid of lice on another horse that picked them up from some donkeys it had come into contact with (we think).

A month ago, I wouldn't have been able to even touch her feet and I've been gradually introducing them into the grooming process to the stage where she'll let me lather shampoo into them with my hands but she won't actually let me lift them. I guess I'll just have to be brave then and see if I can grab her legs & hang on to them (or just see how the farrier gets on tonight :o ). It is a scarey prospect though, given the size of them :eek:
 
ghostie said:
I think clicker training can be really useful in this sort of situation as it helps to form positive associations which replace the negative ones that she currently has with having her feet picked up. Like all animals horses work better with positive reinforcement - if she learns that picking her feet up = nice things then she will be much happier about it all round.
Click to expand...

I must admit, I have used persistance in the past on our other horses but maybe reward (which I take the clicker method to be) would work better with her (or a mixture of both?).

There seems to be so many different schools of thought though - some subtley so and others not!! Some say reward is good, others say that pressure/release works and others say "be the boss". I've certainly tried to avoid rewarding with food as I've read that the only reward should be praise in the form of a pat or a stroke or the horse will soon refuse to do something unless food is given but maybe it's just a case of working out what'll work for us? It's so confusing!!!
 
It could be more of a trust issue if you haven't had her very long. When we first got my horse, he wouldn't pick his feet up due to lack of trust as well as the condition they were in from the previous owner. Now he picks his feet up beautifully most of the time, all we did was work on trying to get him to pick them up every morning and night with a supply of hay to distract him... he is very food driven. :p
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Also when I used to ride a gypsy cob who we eventually found out had mites, he wouldn't pick up his feet as it was a psychological thing that he thought if he didn't pick them up, he wouldn't need to work. You need to be the boss I suppose as she may just take advantage if she's smart.
 
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I think it is a case of slowly building up to it. I would make sure I can run my hand up and down each leg and make sure that is a normal part of twice daily handling. I would progress to getting her to lift each leg in turn but with no thought of holding them. I would then gradually increase the time she lifts them up for. Eventually when you get to the holding bit what worked for me was putting my thumb on the sole of the hoof. No idea why that works but it did. Again it is a case of just expecting her to let you hold the hoof slightly longer each time until you can get her to relax. Try to be hugely patient too. I have not tried pressure and release for picking up hooves but that definitely works in other areas. Whatever you do make sure you wear a hat and keep yourself safe.
 
Yep I had a similar problem with my mare when I first got her back in September over time she is getting better, she used to let you pick her feet up then used to snatch her foot back or kinda collapses so you had to let go, but she isn't as bad now and actually picks her feet up for me to pick :) when the first time she was shod she didn't want the farrier going near her feet she reared etc and had to be twitched but now she is ok and it's not a big issue anymore she gets alittle antsy sometimes but our farrier is very patient with her and she gets better as time goes by :)
 
Also forgot to say as other peeps have said, persistance is the key and in time they learn to trust you which also helps :)
 
OK thanks everyone. Like I say - she would never have let me anywhere near them a month ago so I suppose I am actually doing well to be able to brush & shampoo them :)

The Farrier is coming tonight to look at one of the others anyway so although her feet could really do with a trim (one of the hooves is beginning to split) it's not the end of the world if he can't do anything with her either yet because I'm certainly in no hurry to ride her yet in any case - if she won't trust me to pick her feet up, I doubt she'll trust me enough to ride her. I'll probably have something to say tomorrow good or bad :rolleyes:
 
The thing with clicker training is that the 'click' becomes the reward rather than the food itself, so it isn't the same as just randomly feeding treats. I was always a bit sceptical of the idea of clicker training but having used it to train a cat (who knew you could train a cat?!?) to come when called, sit and hold it's paw out to have its claws trimmed I am convinced of it's value! Horses are clearly a lot more biddable than cats, so comparatively they are a doddle. If you google there are loads of sites out there with useful info

Good luck whatever you decide :)
 
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