Problem youngster to....oh, problem situation :(

[PerlinoPlank]

I have a feeling this is going to be long, so best get your glass of vino and takeaway now

Ok, a little history; I bought my girlie in April as a mild "problem horse" when she was two. Basically she'd done nothing but go from field to stable all her life, got sold unseen, lorry sent down, wouldn't load, driver hit her, she reared, went over backwards, got put back in stable. Result = p*ssed off pony who then took two people to lead anywhere!

Fastforward to October and she's got great manners, dope on a rope to lead and generally a much more happy and chilled out ponypants (although she is a sensitive flower so still has a few baby/green freak outs!)
Good to lunge, in hand walkies round the lanes, happy with tractors, cows, quad bikes, buses etc, had tack on and have plodded up and down the lane a few times on a "hack", both led and not led. I haven't approached the massive issue of loading, hoping she'll forget

November - (she's now 3 1/2years old) I gave up my little private yard (no electric in the winter is no fun at all!) and both moved to a lovely livery yard with great facilities and a rubber, flood lit sand school. I didn't do any work with her for a few weeks, just while she was settling in.
A few weeks in we tack up, get on and good to go. Go into the school and start on a gentle plod around. She'd never been in the school before, but she is used to a surface and schools as breeder had one they used to turn her out in.
Then someone slammed the gate behind us, she freaks, runs, bucks, rears, broncs and I hit the deck (massive thumbs up to rubber surfaced schools, bouncy )
She's then very wound up and jumpy so wouldn't let me back on (even with offers of holding her and leg ups), so I settled for leading her around the school until she calmed down and so she could get used to it.

Since then I've done more in hand stuff with her in the school, lunging, long reining so she's happy to work in there, but I've not sat on her again.

My problem now lies in wanting to re-introduce some ridden work (I'd be over the moon with just one problem-free lap of the school in walk!) but she won't and never has stood at a mounting block for me to get on (she was always fidgety, even with a leg up), I'm at the yard very early and very late so no one is ever around to ask for help and I can't get on her from the ground alone!

Where should I go from here?! Common sense tells me to work on the mounting block issue, but it's dark when I'm up there and although the school is floodlit, the part of the yard where the mounting block is, is not! I have stood on my tack box and leaned over her in the stable to which puts her head up and she sticks her ears back a bit but generally doesn't care. Having a saddle on seems to get the same reaction.
I'd hate to think she now has an issue with me getting on as she was never great in the first place (she calms down as soon as your on board though).
Is there anything I can do in the stable/in hand in the school in preparation?
Where would you go from here?

Sorry for the essay, and thank you to anyone who read up to here! Echo Falls and crispy chilli beef for all

 

[PerlinoPlank]

Sorry, I forgot to mention teeth and back are fine, saddle professionally fitted.

 

[LouS]

Have you had all physical issues checked? She's telling you she isn't happy when you put the saddle on so I'd definitely get any pain/fitting issues checked out first. If you are sure everything is fine I would start by re-introducing the saddle properly. Put it on, send her out on a lunge line and let her express herself, then I'd take it off, send her out, bring her back, put it back on, I'd repeat this many, many times until she is totally okay with it. I wouldn't even consider mounting her until she is totally relaxed about the saddle being put on.

In regards to the mounting block, with all my youngsters that I'm backing/breaking, at the end of each session of work I take them to the mounting block and get them to stand with me stood on it for as long as it takes. If they move a hoof I move it back. Once they're happy standing there I will jump about next to them, bang saddle, stirrups etc, I'm not just looking for them to stand still, I'm looking for them to lower their head and relax. By the time I'm actually reading to get on them they are totally brick-still at the mounting block. They have to learn to stand and let me get on where-ever I want to get on from day one. If I start swinging my leg over and they move, I will stop and correct them, if you're strict now you'll have a mannerly horse later.

 

[be positive]

Take a box into the school with you and lean over her in there, just take it slowly until she is confident again, can you try getting on at the weekend when someone is there to help. I would get on in the school until she is happy again, I had a nasty fall by the mounting block the ground was much harder than the arena surface

 

[PerlinoPlank]

Thanks for your reply, LouS
I forgot to mention in my original post (essay) that all physical issues have been checked and are fine.

I lunge (walk and trot), lead around and take her for in-hand walkies with the saddle on, once it's on she's fine and totally relaxed wearing it. I put the grumpiness down to her just being a baby and not used to having a girth done up?

Thanks for the mounting block idea; I did a version of this in the stable on my tack box - she'll look at me for the first few times, but after a while she'll carry on eating and not bat an eyelid. I can jump around on it, wiggle around when laid over her and pat her far side where my leg would go.
I can't go outside and use the yard mounting block until we have some lighter evenings, so is there anything more I can do in the stable / school before progressing to this?

 

[LouS]

Have you thought of just turning her away for a few months until you have the light etc to work with her properly? Just a thought.

If she's lifting her head up and scowling that's not accepting the saddle to me. I can't see your horse so I don't know but just to see I would take her out into your arena on a lunge line unsaddled. Let her have a bit of a run then bring her back and put the saddle on with stirrups flapping (tie them under her belly with a stirrup leather) and send her out and see what she does. A lot of horses are tied up/held etc all the time through the backing process and never actually get to accept the saddle, so the explosions come later once they're loose and being ridden.

When I'm backing I do a lot of long lining on a circle and in straight lines with a saddle on so they already know how to be ridden before anyone sits on them.

I wouldn't do any extensive work with her until the spring/summer though, she's still very young, doing any sort of work on a circle is very strenuous on them. If you want to keep going I would advise working through the saddle issues, then long lining in walk so she's learning to turn and stop etc. I don't advise you get on until she is totally relaxed with you bouncing around next to her on the mounting block. It is my personal preference but if I'm not happy that I can sit on a horse by myself and it won't explode then I won't get on it because I haven't done my job properly. Sitting on is really the last piece of the puzzle to me. You can do lots of things stood next to her, I jump up and down like a lunatic, make a lot of noise stamping my feet, rattle the stirrup about on the off side/hit the off side of the saddle etc. Until they are so bored of me they just don't care.

 

[PerlinoPlank]

Thanks again, LouS and Be Postitive

I have thought about turning her away, but at the yard they have to come in at night over the winter, so I thought if I'm having that contact with her, I may as well put a saddle on her a few times a month, have a play in the school and do in hand walks with her, so she stays used to it. Calm repetition is the key with her. I'm in no doubt that if I tacked her up, got a leg up and walked round the school with her every night she would come on in leaps and bounds, but I can't do that at the moment.

I lunge her happily saddled and unsaddled, stirrups flapping, she'll long line left and right, stop and back up (as a side thought - does anyone trot whilst long reining?).

I feel her issue is intially seeing the saddle and thinking "urgh, work" or "oh, that funny girth thing is coming next" (i've stood there and done up/undone her girth a hundred times, she gets used to it after a few mins and there's no reaction at all) or maybe relating saddle/tack to the gate slam and my fall as that was her first experience of a saddle at the new yard?

Then my issue of not being able to get on alone / not enough mounting block training or maybe her not wanting me to get back on as she thinks it will be a repeat of gateslam?

Just throwing ideas out there

 

[LouS]

I long line on a circle (like lunging with two lines), its much better or them than lunging and you can circle for a bit, change direction, then just get behind her and go in straight lines again. You could even set up cones/poles etc to weave around. I do walk, trot and canter with two lines on a circle, I would start with very small amounts as it is very difficult (but excellent) for them.

Don't worry about getting on her and just practice getting her to stand next to a block. I use a chair or a wing if there's no mounting block about. No matter how excited/wound up my gelding is about being somewhere now, he will always stand like a brick to let me on, he doesn't question it. Its such a pleasure to be know I can leave the reins dropped on his neck and he won't move anywhere. He knows to wait for me to ask him forwards because every time he's just wandered off in the past once my leg's over he's been corrected.

Horses learn by repetition, good repetition. You must always, always correct her. Otherwise moving one hoof will soon lead to walking off before you've even got your leg over. Its easy to get legged up and get someone to hold her, but she's not going to learn to stand still if you don't teach her.

 

[unbalanced]

What about getting one of those portable mounting blocks that you can take into the school with you? Failing that, at my old yard, we had some old barrels (got on eBay for a tenner each) that served multiple purposes as jump wings, bending cones, mounting blocks and seats.

Can you get your horse to move sideways towards you? I find that very useful for mounting as I don't have a block at all at my new yard and haven't got round to getting one. I sit on the fence and I have taught my horse that when I raise my right arm (if I am getting on from the left) she has to come sideways towards me. Little tricks like that are really useful because they eliminate the quarters swinging away and needing to get down and reposition your horse. Also being able to back her up a couple of steps from a distance (and then a slight height) is a useful tool to add to your groundwork if it's not already there. It will all help you to have control of her feet for when you are ready to try again at the block.

Good luck with your baby, sounds like you are doing a great job with her.

 

[LouS]

Agree with unbalanced about bring her sideways towards you. I teach them to bring their quarters towards me if I touch with a stick, stops any of this evasive swinging quarters away. I can also move backwards, forwards and shoulders over. The more control you have over her feet the better equipped you are to deal with things.

 

[PerlinoPlank]

Thanks everyone!

She's generally very good on the ground; she'll back up with voice command only and goes over when asked or when I touch her side (I do this where my heel would be in preparation for ridden work).

Asking her to come towards me would be very useful, how did you go about teaching this?

The barrel idea is a good one, and thanks for your kind words, unbalanced. I hope I'm doing a good job with her; i've broken in, ridden on and re-schooled many in my time, but she is on a whole new level. Luckily we have a good bond (since she was a baby, her breeders are my best friend so i've known her all her life and always been able to work with her better than anyone )

Looks like I should invest in a barrel / DIY mouting block and carry on jumping around like a loon on it next to her in the stable and school As well as taking saddle off/on and doing up/undoing the girth umpteen times a day!

 

[unbalanced]

First make sure that your horse knows that light tapping with a long whip means move away. You want to get this really good so that you can imagine your horse being in a bubble and just tap the bubble to move the horse away if that makes sense eg tapping your whip by the hindquarters should push them away from you (MUCH easier to start with away from you).

When that is understood, stand by the near shoulder and use the whip on the off side quarters tapping lightly until you get a step towards you. I had to position my horse facing into a corner originally when I taught this to block off the 'forwards' and 'move to the right' options to help her know what she was supposed to do but she did get it quite quickly then. Once you have a few steps towards you, you can easily refine it to tapping the bubble, then to waving the whip upwards and then get rid of the whip altogether (as you won't always want to ride with one) and just raise your hand). Obviously I taught this from both sides, I just used near and off to make my horrendous explanation slightly less confusing hopefully!!! I hope this helps and good luck with your lovely girl

 

[Ladydragon]

When that is understood, stand by the near shoulder and use the whip on the off side quarters tapping lightly until you get a step towards you. I had to position my horse facing into a corner originally when I taught this to block off the 'forwards' and 'move to the right' options to help her know what she was supposed to do but she did get it quite quickly then. Once you have a few steps towards you, you can easily refine it to tapping the bubble, then to waving the whip upwards and then get rid of the whip altogether (as you won't always want to ride with one) and just raise your hand). Obviously I taught this from both sides, I just used near and off to make my horrendous explanation slightly less confusing hopefully!!! I hope this helps and good luck with your lovely girl

I'm glad Sare asked that question - that's a handy, and perfectly timed, bit of information...

Our foal and two year old are moving away quite nicely (-ish and sometimes in the case of the baby ) but wasn't sure of the best approach to bring their back ends in...

 

[Alyth]

IMO it would be really good if you could plan to do a Parelli or similar natural horsemanship beginner/level1 clinic in the spring. That would establish basics and get everything ready for you to back her/him. It would mean you would understand the different types of pressure and the ways of affecting them. It would mean you understand phases, ie. starting very light and increasing in increments until you get a response and then releasing. It would mean you start to understand each other and start developing a relationship. Good luck with your journey!!

 

[millreef]

*Ducks for cover at the mention of Parelli*

 

[Alyth]

*Ducks for cover at the mention of Parelli*

LOL - whatever the controversies he is good with basics!!! He may be an arrogant showman, and as you progress you certainly dispute some of the theories, but for the basics they can't be beat. He starts at the beginning unlike some others...!!!

 

[foxy1]

This http://www.horseandcountry.tv/ask-the-expert/case-study-how-get-your-horse-stand-still

 

[JanetGeorge]

There's some great advice here (save me a LOT of typing ) particularly from LouS.

But - you've said her back has been checked. By whom? My current little problem mare had passed a 5 stage vetting 2 days before she arrived here. We could make NO progress with the most simple things - she was exceptionally nervous of everything and nothing seemed to improve her. So we got VERY good physio to her - and she was a contracted mass of muscle (almost certainly been over backwards at some stage). It's taken a lot of physio to get the muscles relaxed - and her calmer. Then it's repetition, repetition, repetition! Break the work up into TINY steps and keep repeating until she truly relaxes and accepts each stage.

Accepting the saddle happily comes before mounting! Standing at the mounting block while you bounce beside her, reach over her, lean over her, etc etc etc all come BEFORE mounting Any little step you miss - or fail to establish properly - WILL come back and bite you on the bum.