Problems leading in from field - any ideas?

[Carpetsmum]

Hello everyone,

I've owned my traditional cob for 6 years and last year had to move to a new yard. After initial problems on handling, barginess generally knocking me around which I think was the anxiety of moving yards and leaving his constant companion of 4 years, he settled well and was brilliant all summer.

During the winter his behaviour changed so dramatically, especially when being brought in from field, rearing, broncing, charging and generally frightening the life out of the yard owner when she brought him in. I was advised that I should consider selling or pts because he was dangerous!

I had never experienced this kind of behaviour before and if I handed owned him previously I would probably have agreed but instead I gave him a chance by moving to a new yard again.

Once again he's been great since Easter when I moved him apart from a couple of difficult weeks when we first moved.

Over the weekend the routine has been changed to all the horses coming in at night and I don't get to the yard until most of them have been brought in. Tonight he still had 2 companions in the field with him but was obviously anxious and broncing on the spot by the gate.

Well tonight I had the same rearing, broncing, charging horse that I had last winter. I'm at my wits end, I just wish I could work out what is causing such an abrupt change in behaviour - he was fine to bring in yesterday!

Any ideas?

 

[darkhorse123]

a dually headcollar and a good instructor to come out and help you both - good luck xxx

 

[polly1976]

Sorry to hear that - have to say i have not come across that issue - but def sounds like some sort of seperation anxiety from someone.
I hope you get to the bottom of it.

 

[**Vanner**]

Sounds like he is very insecure. My boy's field buddy (also a cob) has become somewhat unpredictable since my boys been on box rest because he is an insecure type.

 

[WandaMare]

Sounds like a tricky problem although I'm sure it can be resolved. What happens if he is bought in first on his own? I would do that for awhile then gradually start taking him with the others once he gets his confidence.

 

[Achinghips]

Chifney - if you know or have someone to show you how to use it - I'm trusting you have already tried groundwork.

 

[Carpetsmum]

Thanks for the support guys - much appreciated.
I do lead him in a dually and long line and he almost seems to fight the headcollar when the ropes come into play.
I did have a Monty Roberts qualified instructor out to help me when it first started but the behavour stopped quite abruptly after I moved to new yard. She was so suprised that she asked if I would consider having a horse communicator to find out what had caused it.

I love this horse to bits and he'll be with me for life but I must admit that I'm really worried about having to cope with this because it seems to be so unpredictable.

I agree about the anxiety and I've asked the yard owner to start getting him in with the others but I have to admit to being worried about putting someone else at risk, even though she really knows her stuff!

 

[Foxhunter49]

Of course he is going to fight the pressure because he knows that it is going to control him and put paid to his ill manners!

I do not know if you ever watch Super Nanny but when Jo Frost puts a child (or has the parent do so,) on the 'Naughty Step' they will fight in every way they know how to resist the discipline. Horses are no different and will often put up a real show when corrected.

Wear gloves and a hard hat and carry a longish stick or have a piece of hosepipe. When he starts to mess around jerk him as hard as you can with both hands on the rope. If this causes him to rear whack his hind legs with the hose. It will do no more than sting him but it will also frighten him as you are attacking his only means of support.
Every time he messes even if it is only to pull you a bit you correct hard and fast. If he pulls, make him go back four or five steps.
Be very determined, very calm but let him know that there is no way that you are going to take any more of his messing round.

One good hard lesson being firm and fair and he will never be as bad again. Correct the slightest misdemeanour, so he knows where he stands and he will have more respect for you.

 

[Hal1k1]

Sounds like he is having real problems adjusting to all the changes. You definately need to be calm and confident but I would try having him brought in earlier if possible and if there are two people available ask if he can be accompanied by a sensible horse.

 

[ISHmad]

I'm sorry but I disagree totally about whacking his hind legs. How is this going to help what sounds like a very worried horse other than stress him out more.

Could you try a rope halter instead of the Dually? Sometimes the dually doesn't give a quick enough release so may be he is fighting that. Also get an RA out again so she can see what you are dealing with.

Some horses just do get anxious when they are later than the bulk of the others coming in. Bringing him in earlier or with another horse should help.

 

[tinap]

Every now & again ours has a stez like this so when he does - out comes an Eskidron head collar (the one with the chain running through it) he knows as soon as its on that he shouldn't mess about - & he doesn't!!!

 

[Dry Rot]

I think you need to sit down and carefully analyse each situation. What is different? Is he stabled where he can't see/hear others? Something is triggering this behaviour and you can't begin to solve the problem until you know what that is. Of course, you can treat the symptoms (smacking/dually head collars/lunge whips, etc) but it would be much better to work out what has changed. It might be something quite small that he objects to. Sorry, probably not much help. The "no nonsense" approach often works and it is also possible he is picking up on your own anxiety.

 

[Wagtail]

Your horse is obviously traumatised from when he was separated from his buddy of four years. Horses will pair bond for life and it is totally unnatural for them to be wrenched from their herd and be thrown into a new one. Obviously, it is impractical for horses to always remain with their friends unless they are lucky enough to have a home for life with someone.

So you now have a horse that is very insecure. It is not how he used to be but how was he to know that his world could be turned upside down without a moment's notice, not once, but twice? I am not blaming you here, as many people have to move yards and most horses cope very well considering. However, your horse has not coped and you need to allow him to heal. He needs a regular routine so that he comes in and goes out at the same time each day and the horses are taken out in the same order. Life needs to be predictable for him again. This is the only way he will settle and start to feel less insecure. So talk to your yard owner to make sure that he is taken out of the field at the same time each day and remains with the same horses. If I have to alter my horses and my liveries routine in any way due to a vet visit or someone riding at a different time, then the others become unsettled and so I keep such disruptions to an absolute minimum.

However, this is all well and good, but you currently have a problem horse that is becoming dangerous to bring in, and you need a short term solution to see you through this time until he settles (and he will settle eventually if his routine is predictable).

I would bring him in with a rope halter and long line. Wear a hat and gloves too. How food oriented is he? If he loves his grub then fill your pocket with some horse and pony cubes and trickle feed him as you bring him in. Stop every few strides and praise him and feed him a couple of the cubes. Do this all the way to his stable. If he plays up, rears etc, then just stand clear and keep calm. Ignore the behaviour and continue on your way as soon as he stops. You could also try top spec calmer. It worked a treat for my new TB who exhibitted very similar behaviour for the first few weeks I owned him. Good luck!

 

[Foxhunter49]

I'm sorry but I disagree totally about whacking his hind legs. How is this going to help what sounds like a very worried horse other than stress him out more.

The behaviour this horse is exhibiting it dangerous to both handler and himself.
When a horse is misbehaving, in a panic or whatever, you have to break through his barrier of trying to do what he wants to do so that he concentrates on the handler. A short sharp whack on the hind legs will not traumatise him further but will make him think of the handler and wonder what happened.
That is the time when you can take control again.

I have seen more than one horse rear and go over backwards smashing their poll and withers, not good. I would rather give them a short sharp shock than have that happen.

It is rather like when someone is hysterical and giving them a slap across the face. The shock snaps them out of it.

 

[china]

im going to disagree with most people here. I dont think it has anything to do wih seperation from long term friend etc. Sounds to me like he has no respect for you at all on the ground. My mare was a complete bagage last winter after being a lamb all summer! She had me pinned in the corner of her paddock. I did a couple of weeks of ground work in the snow, just getting her to respect my space and she has been great ever since. If she tits about she does it out of my space and never pulls me or she gets a telling off. I can understand a horse getting upset if its left out alone etc but this doesnt sound like the case.

 

[bumblelion]

I'd try and get him in earlier so he's not getting anxious waiting around watching the others go in before him. My tb was like this when on livery. He had to be first or close first to going out (that meant getting to yard for 6am) and had to be brought in first (about 3pm!). Luckily I worked from home so could do this but it wasn't much fun! I then got another horse and he was the same, fine going out last but had to come in first also! Hard work, they used to rear, try and tank off, the yard staff there wouldn't handle them either as they said they were dangerous! Now they're at home and are completely different, both relatively plods to lead. No other horses to worry about either! I always led them in a chiffney, for safety. They used to still dance about but knew they couldn't tank off or rear. I find they're much more sensitive in the winter, windy one day, raining the next. I think your boy would benefit in a strict routine and either a bridle/control headcollar or if you think you need it a chiffney so he can't take the p*ss!!!

 

[FarriersFriend]

I too have had the same problems withmy horse,usually only when bringing in during the winter. It seemed to be linked to some sort of anxiety about 'bringing in' time. When I first got him it scared me,he's a big bugger when standing on his back legs. I knew that if I was going to keep him this had to be nipped in the bud as it was ridiculous.

I started leading him in his bridle (just a slip head with a snaffle) over the headcollar at all times with a longer line. I would pause him and reward his calm behaviour every few hundred yards. He seemed to know when he'd got the bridle on and was generally much better.

After a few months of no shenanigans I reverted back to a headcollar and sadly he would still occasionally play up so now I take it day by day,if its windy or he's been hoolying about I'll use the bridle if weather is ok and he's calm I just use the headcollar.

I suppose he'll never be 100% trustworthy,that's why it's only me that brings him in, I won't allow anyone else to do it incase he hurt someone.

Thankfully now it's a rare occurence but if I'm ever in doubt I'll do whatever is necessary to keep myself safe ie; bridle,long line,gloves, hat etc.

Edited to add-I tend to bring him in early now that seems to help. He loves being in his stable in the winter,he's much happier just going out for 5-6 hours.

 

[baymareb]

I tend to agree it's not separation - he settled down after the initial separation from his companion and there were still horses in the field with him when he was getting out of sorts at the gate.

To me, that speaks of impatience and a decline in manners. Has the weather been cooler? That often brings out the energy in them.

At any rate, the behavior he's exhibiting is dangerous and should be taken seriously imo. I have a mare who went through a similar phase after an injury kept her on stall rest - I tried encouraging good behavior and ignoring the bad and was rewarded with six fractures in my face when she reared and fell over backwards, pulling me into her front feet.

I would suggest some intensive ground work to rebuild respect and manners. Some manner of good control halter (I use a rope halter myself but there are plenty of options) and treating every single time he's on the lead as a schooling exercise.

Obviously my injury colors my perspective but I personally no longer accept any form of poor manners - horses are just too big and powerful to be bouncing around on the end of the lead.

 

[Miss L Toe]

I'd try and get him in earlier so he's not getting anxious waiting around watching the others go in before him. My tb was like this when on livery. He had to be first or close first to going out (that meant getting to yard for 6am) and had to be brought in first (about 3pm!). Luckily I worked from home so could do this but it wasn't much fun! I then got another horse and he was the same, fine going out last but had to come in first also! Hard work, they used to rear, try and tank off, the yard staff there wouldn't handle them either as they said they were dangerous! Now they're at home and are completely different, both relatively plods to lead. No other horses to worry about either! I always led them in a chiffney, for safety. They used to still dance about but knew they couldn't tank off or rear. I find they're much more sensitive in the winter, windy one day, raining the next. I think your boy would benefit in a strict routine and either a bridle/control headcollar or if you think you need it a chiffney so he can't take the p*ss!!!

^^^^^this
If you study the horses in the field, try to identify his best friend and make sure they come in together, A bridle is easier for most people to use, just keep reins out of the way, and use a lunge rein, this is fine for bringing in but not for turning out.

 

[Fellewell]

Every now & again ours has a stez like this so when he does - out comes an Eskidron head collar (the one with the chain running through it) he knows as soon as its on that he shouldn't mess about - & he doesn't!!!

I'd say Eskadron/stallion chain and when you're doing your groundwork focus on disengaging his hind quarters, that way you knock the engine out. I wouldn't recommend the hose pipe treatment unless you want to make bath times more eventful and a horse that's difficult to catch.
I would guess that he's hungrier in winter, hence keen to get in, because the grass is generally less nutritious (though there is a flush in autumn which laminitic owners will explain).
Do you feed him the minute he gets in? If so I'd get him in first for a few days, put him in his stable and make him wait, then when the others are in and fed he can have his.

 

[meesha]

Agree with MrsD123 - it could be that his new "best friend" is being brought in before him - if you can identfiy which horse that is and maybe take it in turns with that horses owner to bring both in together ! Either that or ask for a different field if possible - preferably one where the other horses are left out 24/7 - he will then be the only one being brought in - this might break the cycle ! Another option could be to have him live out with others ! (often not possible I know !)

you do need to do something before nights draw in as you could be handling him in dark on own etc.

Definately sounds like you need to build up the bond between you as well - do you hack him out on his own ? is it actually a wider issue of trust ?

Or .....is he just a sod ! (maybe he has been taking lessons off my idiot)


Good luck

 

[Lotty]

I think it may be manners. My mare does this especially in the winter and its all down to the fact 'its time to come in and she cant get to her stable quick enough'. I did alot of groundwork with her last winter and sometimes every now and then I have to take her in the school to go over the ground work to remind her again. I did use a dually but I don't think the pressure releases quick enough, I know use the Richard Maxwell training halter. It's brilliant and releases straight away.

 

[AMH]

If this was a separation issue, surely he'd struggle during the summer when horses are taken away to be ridden, or when he's taken out of the field for any reason?

I guess he's fed straight away when he's brought in - is he very food-orientated? Could it not just have started as 'yippee it's tea time' antics, which have become ingrained now that he's managed to do it successfully a few times?

I think the idea of trying to bring him in first, if possible, is a good one. Also, does he muck about when being led out in the mornings? If not, again, it would suggest it's not a separation issue.

If it is just high jinx, then I guess the chiffney/stallion chain/controller suggestions apply. Good luck, I hope you get to sort him - it's so hard when you're not able to always be there to handle them yourself, I know! x

 

[BonneMaman]

Certainly a dually headcollar and a VERY firm hand! You need to be absolutely sure where the boundaries lie and not let him get away with anthing and I mean anything!

 

[mmel001]

Oooh I know this one so very well! I do feel for you and know only too well how scary it can be, not just for you but your fear of what if's with someone else leading them! I can only offer you information that I've learned from people and in general for what I did with my horse! I'm not an expert and if a situation is becoming more and more dangerous I would implore you to seek an experts advice, for your own safety!

I've got a young horse who has been known to be a complete handful, rearing, napping, charging, and being incredibly bolshy!

For me the main problem was turnout, generally coming into the stable he was ok. Going out I kind of created a rod for my own back because I led him out with another horse every day. The times I generally had the problems were when I then tried to take him out without the other horse! Either the other horse was already out, or would be going out later.

He could be incredibly dangerous to lead at times and we had a long walk so I can honestly tell you it wasn't fun and I didn't enjoy it! I had an RA out to help, who was great, but in all honesty she could see that there were seperation anxieties going on, as well as some training issues which needed addressing, so I ended up sending my boy away for 6 weeks to have some training and a light start (he had not been backed so they started that off etc).

The break was good for him because it meant that we'd broken the routine of him being taken out with the other horse, I was careful not to fall back into that trap when he got back. The new problem I had was that being the first to the yard in the mornings, my boy didn't want to go out to the field first, and would plant every other step, which in itself became frustrating and a new challenge, so I had to work around that one too. He didn't come back miraculously changed, as I knew he wouldn't but from working with him and the trainer, and trying to be a lot calmer about it we worked through the issues.

I tend to lead him in a Dually, for those just in case moments, he can set his head and take off with the worlds biggest strongest man if he really wanted to and got the chance, and I'm only little and currently 6 months pregnant! I wear my hat and gloves all of the time, just in case I need them. If he does play up now, I have to have a consequence for his actions, and that has to be administered quickly. I'll be quick to back him up, or send him around me, or move him in another direction, and try to ensure that when I have him walking forward we keep going forward, at my pace, with him where I want him to be. He has to understand that he can't behave like that. If he's completely in his own zone and charging around, I have to be able to bring his attention back to me, and keep him out of my space. I don't whack him, but he will get a sharp tug on the line. If that doesn't snap him out of it I will use my lead rope and whack my boot or slap it around my jacket to make loud noise. Alternatively I try and change his direction. Easy, when you aren't knee deep in mud! Half the time with him it's about distraction, and getting his attention and focus back on you. I have to have more than one thing up my sleeve to try.

You should as most people have said look at your horses behaviour and why he's doing it, if you can manage the leading in and taking out and making it random so it's not such a set routine that could help as he won't know from one day to the next if he's coming in first or last. Changing feeding patterns can help as well as not always going straight to the yard, perhaps sometimes go into the school or take a detour. It could also be hi-jinks and excitement. With my horse I think it was anxiety and excitement. He is no longer pair bonded as he was last year in that we can walk to and from the field OK, but he still gets excited, especially if he's been in his stable for any length of time.

The Dually is a great tool, but you need to have quick timing, your RA can help you with this. I find the release (when you drop the pressure from the line) is only as quick as the hands that are releasing the line. As is when you apply the pressure. As soon as you have the behaviour you want you release the pressure and you can use praise etc to back that up. Make sure you dually is fitted correctly too. If it's too low on the softer part of his nose it may not be doing it's job as effectively and can be more irritating then effective.

Unfortunately there is no magic fix. Generally it takes a lot of patience and a lot of repitition. I think though that your horse needs to understand that there are boundaries and that it's not acceptable to pull you around and behave like that. You have to be determined in your head that your horse isn't going to act like that, and you have to take the lead and be the one moving your horses feet, not him moving yours. I would advise you to get your RA or some other professional out again to offer you some advice, they can offer that outside view of the situation as they see it and can work with you to find what will work with you and your horse. It's these little things that make all the difference when you are half way down a field with a horse behaving like a lunatic, on your own, wondering if you are actually going to get where you are going in one piece or not!

Good luck and let us know how you get on!