problems with new horse (pain-related?)

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CanisMinor

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Hi All,

first post! :) Looking for some advice re some issues with my 7 yo TB. Could be pain-related or also a "testing the new owner" scenario; I bought him a month ago. I'm sorry this will be a bit of an essay, if someone has the heart to read it all and offer their advice I'd be so so grateful though...

Bought him from reputable dealer, passed five stage vetting. Lovely to ride when test-riding him in school and out. In stable/on ground he is very sweet and calm, fine to load, fine with farrier etc, so generally a nice person. However as of recently he is becoming quite unlike himself when ridden or lunged. :(

First week, he went really well, with the occasional buck. Got his teeth/back/feet checked as with all my horses. Teeth had some sharp points and feet were OKish but previous farrier appears to have "polished" hoof wall down to almost nothing... :eek: But he isn't lame. Back was absolutely fine.

After about two weeks, he got into more serious bucking/rearing/bouncing behaviour. Told him off every time (thinking he was just testing me) until it progressed to the point where he would keep bucking/rearing/bouncing until I was off, no matter what. The bucking would come out of the blue after a while of really nice, relaxed flatwork.

Had a new saddle fitted last week; although his back wasn't at all sore the old saddle was not a great fit. It wasn't a terrible fit either, but just in case. After this change of saddle he is now instead veeeeery docile; dragging his feet, refusing to go forward, won't go into the contact, etc... His trot is normally rhythmical with nice forward action, now he just trips about as slowly as he can. He is forward on the lunge though (with saddle on), it is just when ridden that he seems really reluctant.

So, must be some sort of pain, and the change of saddle seems to have changed his reaction to the pain from "panic" to "reluctance".

My theories so far:
-- testing me (seems unlikely by now; he is very respectful when handling him on the ground)
-- not yet settled at new yard (making him either fizzy or totally exhausted)
-- he still remembers the pain of sharp teeth or uncomfortable saddle
-- some kind of arthritis, KS
-- sore feet (due to not having great feet in the first place)
-- some other cause of pain, somewhere
-- some kind of deficiency (he's fed H+P cubes, chaff, magnesium + has a salt lick and hay/grass at all times; exactly as previous owner fed him)

Vet will be coming out next week but feeling quite down and stressed about it all right now and would be so so grateful for any advice/experiences anyone out there might have with similar situations?

Thanks,

Cc x
 
It sounds more like pain than testing you, as he is still relaxed and calm on the ground not yet settling is unlikely again behaviour seems beyond just unsettled, plus the fact that he was in a dealers yard so has not come from a long term home and is probably more used to change than some .

Mt first step would be to contact the dealer, it may be that he was tricky on arrival and they worked through it, they will probably deny ever having a problem but it is worth a try and needs to be done sooner rather than later if you are considering returning him.


If his feet are not great that is the obvious place to start but you really need the vet to take it seriously, not put it down as behavioural and leave you to try and figure it out for yourself, and give him a really thorough workup.

The fact he has changed from tense and overreacting to being switched off and reluctant to go forward in a better fitting saddle suggests he has now relaxed but is not free of pain, it could well be bilateral lameness that is causing pain higher up getting to the root cause may take time especially as he is new to you and you do not know what "normal" is for him.

I think I would be very tempted to get the bloods taken at the vetting run just in case.
 
My TB was also what you described as 'docile' & turned out to have KS. We are 6 weeks post surgery. He never bucked, just got progressively slower & more shuffly.

It took a while to get to this stage as the vets didn't take it at all seriously & made me feel like a paranoid idiot, so if bloods are normal (ours were always 110% bang on normal) it might be worth getting some xrays to rule it in or out.

T x
 
be positive, catembi,

thank you very much for reading through all that and for your thoughtful replies, very much appreciated. Today he didn't even want to move forward on the lunge. :( Will call the vet who vetted him for testing the bloods and we'll see what happens. Will also give the dealer a ring.

Again many thanks x
 
Another thought could be Stomach ulcers. Dont rule it out. If the horse has had quite a bit of stress with moving yards more than once recently that wouldnt help. they can be very unpredictable when they have ulcers more so with the ridden work. My boy has them and is fine on the lunge and in the field but not happy ridden
 
stilton said:
Another thought could be Stomach ulcers. Dont rule it out. If the horse has had quite a bit of stress with moving yards more than once recently that wouldnt help. they can be very unpredictable when they have ulcers more so with the ridden work. My boy has them and is fine on the lunge and in the field but not happy ridden
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That's interesting, thanks -- will certainly have a look into that as well!
 
Hi again, just as an update just in case someone finds this thread having similar issues. Vet has diagnosed hock arthritis in both hocks and also kissing spines. There might also be sacroiliac issues. Vetting blood tests clear. Feeling quite deflated to say the very least. :'(
 
I am so sorry to read this. I saw your 'broncoed and broncoed' bit and my heart sank. I had a horse of similar inclination - although it was 2 months when the switch flipped (you can read about it on here). We found, after a dreadful accident involving farrier, sedalin and an attack by another horse, he had mild kissing spines. We attempted to lunge him out of it (proper 12 week rehab on long and low, poles, etc.) but he became increasingly aggressive and the vet told me that he had to go. Before PTS the vet did a thorough work up - his Tuber Sacrale was so loose it rotated when you lifted the back legs. PM showed a shot through SI region and a poorly mended fracture of the ilial shaft.

Having been through it, I wish you all the very best, whatever your decisions. It is heart breaking and I have every sympathy.
 
Sorry to read about the problems you are having with your new TB. I would guess it's pain related. Don't know if my experience will help or not but when I got my TB his behaviour went rapidly downhill, similar to yours. He also passed a five stage vetting and we even ended up getting his bloods checked for evidence of sedation but nothing. Anyway after further vet investigation he was found to have bone spavin and mild arthritis in both hocks. He was only 5. He had both hocks injected and I rehabbed him and his behaviour changed back to the horse I bought. This was 4 years ago and luckily he hasn't needed anymore injections.
 
That sounds typical ulcers to me.
There could be underlying pain but I would get scoped. As a new horse you can say he's new and I've moved yards and he's become like this.... I know some insurances don't pay out unless injury for a certain anount of time.
 
JoClark said:
That sounds typical ulcers to me.
There could be underlying pain but I would get scoped. As a new horse you can say he's new and I've moved yards and he's become like this.... I know some insurances don't pay out unless injury for a certain anount of time.
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I think its 2 weeks, but not sure if vetting makes a difference, well it does but not sure what, does he crib or windsuck [ulcers again]
Cut down/cut out hard feed, and no periods without soaked forage if stabled.
 
CanisMinor said:
Hi again, just as an update just in case someone finds this thread having similar issues. Vet has diagnosed hock arthritis in both hocks and also kissing spines. There might also be sacroiliac issues. Vetting blood tests clear. Feeling quite deflated to say the very least. :'(
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So sorry about the diagnosis. You must be so disappointed. So what was the timescale between him being calm when you first tried him to him broncing etc? Few weeks? It didn't sound like a long time in your description for such a fast deterioration and yet the bloods were clear? Out of interest do you know much about his background, did he race?
Anyway all the best, there is a lot on here about bone spavin and kissing spine, good luck.
 
Reacher said:
So sorry about the diagnosis. You must be so disappointed. So what was the timescale between him being calm when you first tried him to him broncing etc? Few weeks? It didn't sound like a long time in your description for such a fast deterioration and yet the bloods were clear? Out of interest do you know much about his background, did he race?
Anyway all the best, there is a lot on here about bone spavin and kissing spine, good luck.
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Thank you for all your kind replies and support.

Sorry haven't been on here for a long time; very soon after my post I suddenly lost him to allergic shock. :'( Had I, at the time, known the full extent of his various issues I would have PTS immediately. Long story short I heard on the grapevine that his previous owner had huge problems with him; the breeder had offered taking him back from them but instead they sold him on to me. Five-stage vetting didn't pick up on any of his extensive range of problems. While the bloods were allegedly clear, the timescale was indeed suspiciously short. He was bred at an eventing yard and never raced. A case of counting your losses and moving on... Hoping that he is in a better place now. RIP. <3
 
Im so sorry to hear of the sad outcome. Im both saddened and alarmed by your story. Im having problems with my Tb at the moment so I feel for you. You did your utmost and it's good to think he was with someone who put his interests first when he needed it.
 
CanisMinor said:
Thank you for all your kind replies and support.

Sorry haven't been on here for a long time; very soon after my post I suddenly lost him to allergic shock. :'( Had I, at the time, known the full extent of his various issues I would have PTS immediately. Long story short I heard on the grapevine that his previous owner had huge problems with him; the breeder had offered taking him back from them but instead they sold him on to me. Five-stage vetting didn't pick up on any of his extensive range of problems. While the bloods were allegedly clear, the timescale was indeed suspiciously short. He was bred at an eventing yard and never raced. A case of counting your losses and moving on... Hoping that he is in a better place now. RIP. <3
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I'm really sorry to here this.

Can i ask what type of allergic shock?
 
Slightlyconfused said:
I'm really sorry to here this.

Can i ask what type of allergic shock?
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Long story short, we don't know. Allergic reaction was the only thing that couldn't be ruled out. For the sake of my own sanity I've decided to accept that as the cause of death and to move on because I don't think I'll ever know the full truth about it all. I'll only drive myself crazy wondering about it and at the end of the day it won't bring him back. I hope he is up there having all the fun he never got to have during his short time down here. :'(

Thank you all for your kind comments and support, it means a lot x
 
So sorry to hear you lost him. What a horrid time you have had, in a way at least he took the decision out of your hands. Thank God you weren't injured and you can rest assured you tried your best for him.

There are some good horses out there, hope when you are ready and look again it runs more smoothly x
 
Sorry - couldn't read and run. Hope the next one brings you more joy, if you decide to venture out there again..... I also had a horse go bi-laterally lame within 8 days of purchase after passing full 5 stage with x rays. Desmitis of both front suspensories :(. I too had the bloods tested and they were clear. Spent more than his purchase price on vets and rehab and he is now completely sound and in a fabulous home that I am in touch with regularly so thankfully a happier ending than yours but we were both unlucky at the outset. I can only conclude that he was very carefully "managed" before I bought him and he was in fact a ticking time bomb but, and here's the thing, we did everything we could to take precautions and we ultimately did the right thing in the end. It's a gamble buying a horse and some pay off and some don't. Good luck with the next one...I am undecided...
 
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