Professionals doing Area Festivals

[Muddywellies]

I've seen posts on here about this but now can't find them. Did I read something somewhere about BD making the Area Festivals for true amateurs? I read something about them putting Amateur in the title. Reason for me wondering this - once again I've seen a professional win an Area Festival class.

 

[Roxylola]

As far as I know there's no restrictions. If you qualify and you're not ineligible due to points etc you can go.

 

[milliepops]

afaik the latest noise about this was just on the back of Anna Ross writing an opinion piece in H&H.

 

[milliepops]

as always, the problem is how to define an amateur and a pro. the obvious ones are easy, but it's those inbetweeny people where there would still always be unfairness - the groom who works all hours and never has time to ride her own horse would be a pro, but the leisure rider who doesn't have to work and can afford to base with their trainer and ride with them all week long would be an amateur....

 

[Leandy]

I don't get this debate I really don't. If someone satisfies the eligibility criteria they are perfectly entitled to compete. If they don't then they aren't. Some "amateurs" are more skilled and have more money to buy better horse power than many "professionals". Many who would satisfy a "professionals" definition have specialisms which are not pure dressage and do not ride for others for a living. In my competing days, when there was no regionals/area festival divide, I had no objection to being beaten by by those who are better than me. Just inspired me to work harder to get better and know what I am aiming for. On the occasions when I beat "professionals", I just gave myself a pat on the back and felt quite pleased. I don't understand the "everyone is entitled to win something" brigade. I don't see the attraction of winning a class of the also rans! I prefer proper competition with a chance to compete against the best.

 

[LEC]

The disciplines hate defining amateur. In America they have and its a vipers pit of regulation and rules defining it and to some degree policed by everyone else. See below why the disciplines cannot be arsed! This is the American eventing one.

SEF Rules for Eventing Appendix 3 - Participation in Horse Trials

Section 1.1.3 AMATEUR (A)

The following may participate in Eventing competitions as an Amateur:

Subchapter 13-B AMATEURS AND PROFESSIONALS

GR1306 Professional/Amateur Status

1. Regardless of one’s equestrian skills and/or accomplishments, a person is an amateur if after his 18th birthday, as defined in GR101, he has not engaged in any of the activities identified in paragraph 4 below.
   1. In the dressage division, individuals are only eligible to compete as amateurs from the beginning of the calendar year in which they reach age 22, see DR119.3.
   2. For Amateurs in jumper sections, see JP118.
   3. For Amateurs in hunter sections, see HU108.
   4. For Amateurs in eventing, see EV Appendix 3 - Participation in Horse Trials.
2. Remuneration is defined as compensation or payment in any form such as cash, goods, sponsorships, discounts, or services; reimbursement of any expenses; trade or in-kind exchange of goods or services such as board or training.
3. An Amateur is permitted to do the following:
   1. Accept reimbursement for actual expenses associated with conducting classroom seminars for a not-for-profit organization, therapeutic riding programs, or programs for charitable organizations approved in advance by the Federation.
   2. Act as a camp counselor when not hired in the exclusive capacity as a riding instructor; assist in setting schooling fences without remuneration; give instruction or training to handicapped riders for therapeutic purposes.
   3. Appear in advertisements and/or articles related to acknowledgement of one’s own personal or business sponsorship of a competition and/or awards earned by one’s owned horses.
   4. Accept prize money as the owner of a horse in any class other than equitation or showmanship classes.
   5. Accept prize money in dressage.
   6. Accept a non-monetary token gift of appreciation valued less than $300 annually.
   7. Serve as an intern for college credit or course requirements at an accredited institution provided one has never held professional status with the Federation or any other equestrian National Federation. In addition, one may accept reimbursement for expenses without profit, as prescribed by the educational institution’s program, for the internship. In the hackney, roadster, American Saddlebred, saddle seat equitation, Morgan, Andalusian/Lusitano, Friesian, Arabian, and national show horse divisions, college students may also accept a stipend during the internship served under this paragraph. At the request of the Federation, an Amateur shall provide certification from the accredited educational institution under whose auspices a student is pursuing an internship that he is undertaking the internship to meet course or degree requirements.
   8. Write books or articles related to horses.
   9. Accept remuneration for providing service in one’s capacity as a presenter or panelist at a Federation licensed officials’ clinic, competition manager, competition secretary, judge, steward, technical delegate, course designer, announcer, TV commentator, veterinarian, groom, farrier, tack shop operator, breeder, or boarder, or horse transporter.
   10. Accept reimbursement for any bona fide expenses directly related to the horse (i.e. farrier/vet bills, entries). Travel, hotel, equipment, and room and board are not considered bona fide expenses.
   11. Entries for non-under saddle classes in amateur sections at hunter, jumper or hunter/jumper competitions, must be paid either (i) directly to the competition by the Amateur or by the Amateur’s family or (ii) by someone whom the Amateur or the Amateur’s family reimburses within 90 days of the last day of the competition for which entries were paid.
   12. Accept educational competition or training grant(s).
4. Unless expressly permitted above, a person is a professional if after his 18th birthday he does any of the following:
   1. Accepts remuneration AND rides, exercises, drives, shows, trains, assists in training, schools, or conducts clinics or seminars.
   2. Accepts remuneration AND gives riding or driving lessons, showmanship lessons, equitation lessons, trains horses, or provides consultation services in riding, driving, showmanship, equitation, or training of horses.
   3. Accepts remuneration AND acts as an employee in a position such as a groom, farrier, bookkeeper, veterinarian, or barn manager AND instructs, rides, drives, shows, trains, or schools horses that are owned, boarded, or trained by his employer, any member of his employer’s family, or a business in which his employer has an ownership interest.
   4. Accepts remuneration AND uses his name, photograph, or other form of personal association as a horseperson in connection with any advertisement or product/service for sale, including but not limited to apparel, equipment, or property.
   5. Accepts prize money unless permitted in paragraph 3d or 3e above.
   6. Rides, drives, or shows any horse that a cohabitant or family member or a cohabitant or family member’s business receives remuneration for boarding, training, riding, driving, or showing. A cohabitant or family member of a trainer may not absolve themselves of this rule by entering into a lease or any other agreement for a horse owned by a client of the trainer.
   7. Gives instruction to any person or rides, drives, or shows any horse, for which activity his cohabitant or another person in his family or business in which his cohabitant or a family member controls will receive remuneration for the activity. A cohabitant or family member of a trainer may not absolve themselves of this rule by entering into a lease or any other agreement for a horse owned by a client of the trainer.
   8. Accepts remuneration AND acts as an agent in the sale of a horse or pony or accepts a horse or pony on consignment for the purpose of sale or training that is not owned by him, his cohabitant, or a member of his family, a farm/ranch/syndicate/partnership/corporation/business in which he, his cohabitant, or a member of his family controls.
   9. Advertises one’s equestrian services such as training or instruction.
   10. Accepts remuneration AND acts as an intern, apprentice, or working student whose responsibilities include, but are not limited to, riding, driving, showmanship, handling, showing, training or assisting in training, giving lessons/coaching, and/or schooling horses other than horses actually owned by him.
   11. Accepts remuneration in excess of rental fee for use of a facility, ring, or school horses.
   12. Accepts remuneration for such use AND uses commercial logoed items while on competition grounds unless expressly permitted by applicable division rules.
5. A person is also deemed a professional after his 18th birthday, if he accepts remuneration for his spouse, family member, or cohabitant engaging in any activity enumerated in 4a-i above. For the purposes of this rule, the term cohabitant is defined as any individuals living together in a relationship, as would a married couple, but not legally married.
6. After an investigation as to proper status has been initiated, and upon request by the Federation and to the satisfaction of the Federation, an Amateur shall submit verifiable proof of Amateur status, including but not limited to a bill of sale for any horse(s) the Amateur is competing in classes restricted to Amateur Owners. If the Federation deems such proof insufficient, then the Federation may initiate proceedings under Chapter 6. a. Any individual found to have knowingly assisted in the violation of the Amateur rule may also be subject to proceedings in accordance with Chapter 6. See GR1307.
7. For specific inquiries, email amateurinquiry@usef.org.

 

[LEC]

In fact the rules are so long I have to post them on two posts........

GR1307 Amateur Status

1. Only active Federation members may obtain Amateur status. Every person who has reached his/her 18th birthday and competes in classes for amateurs under Federation rules must possess current Amateur status issued by the Federation. (Exception: This is not required for opportunity classes except for the dressage division. If opportunity classes are offered at dressage competitions or regular/local competitions with “Open” dressage classes and are restricted to Amateurs, riders are required to have Amateur status with the Federation). This status must be available for inspection or the competitor must have lodged with the competition secretary, at least one hour prior to such class, an application for such status provided by the Federation. Amateur status will be issued only on receipt of the application properly signed and is revocable at any time for cause. Foreign riders requesting Federation Amateur status must be a Junior, Senior, or Life Competing Member of the Federation (Exception: Equestrian Canada members in possession of current EC membership may sign for USEF Amateur status on a show by show basis at no cost). Any person who has not reached his/her 18th birthday is an amateur and does not require amateur status.
2. An Amateur continues to be such until he/she has received a change in status from the Federation. Any Amateur who wishes to be re-classified on the grounds that he/she has engaged or is planning on engaging in activities which would prevent him/her from continuing to remain an Amateur must notify the Federation in writing.
3. There is no fee for Amateur status for Senior Active or Life Members.
4. If a person violates or does not comply with the above, he/she will not be eligible to compete in Amateur classes and will not be entitled to an award in such classes and will be deemed guilty of a violation within the meaning of Chapter 7 in the event he/she does compete.
5. In the event a person is found to be a professional as a result of a protest or charge made in connection with a competition, all awards won by such person in Amateur classes at such competition and subsequent competitions shall be forfeited and returned to the competition and the person shall be subject to further disciplinary action. The holding of an Amateur card does not preclude the question of amateur standing being raised by a protest or charge.
6. The trainer may be subject to disciplinary action if an exhibitor who shows as an Amateur is protested, and that protest is sustained by the Hearing Committee, and it is determined that the trainer had knowledge of their professional activities. Any changes of status from Professional to Amateur, or vice versa, will be published on the Federation’s web site.
7. An exhibitor who engages a person to ride, drive, or show in halter in any amateur class and then remunerates such person beyond the extent to which such amateur is entitled as provided above in GR1306 will be subject to disciplinary action under Chapter 7.
8. Any person who under these rules is a professional and knowingly and falsely represents himself/herself to be an Amateur by declaring or maintaining current Amateur status issued by the Federation and any person who violates any of the provisions of this rule will be subject to disciplinary action under Chapter 7.
9. A professional continues to be such until he/she has received Amateur status by a vote of the Hearing Committee. Any professional who wishes to be reclassified as an Amateur on the grounds that he/she has not engaged in the activities which made him/her a professional within the last twelve months must notify the Federation in writing.
   1. Such person shall submit to the Hearing Committee an Amateur reclassification request which is supported by:
      1. A notarized letter signed by him/her outlining the horse related activities (using specific dates) which made said person a professional and outlining the activities performed within the twelve month period (or longer) since professional activities have ceased;
      2. Two or more notarized letters from any Senior Active Federation members stating the relationship with the applicant and outlining the applicant's activities for the one year period preceding such written notification advising and testifying that the applicant has not engaged in any activities which would make him/her a professional as outlined in GR1306 during that period;
      3. A processing fee of $50;
      4. Sign and declare Amateur status on a current USEF membership application. The burden of proof of proving Amateur status is on the applicant. The Hearing Committee may call for and/or consider any and all further evidence and facts which it deems pertinent.
      5. The decision of the Hearing Committee on the reclassification request shall be final.
   2. Any changes of status from professional to Amateur, or vice versa, will be published on the Federation’s website.
10. Any changes of status from professional to Amateur, or vice versa, will be published on the Federation’s website.

 

[Cowpony]

So if somebody works as a bookkeeper for an equestrian business and rides a horse owned by the business owner's sister, they are a professional? Bonkers!

 

[Nicnac]

BE rules are much simpler when it comes to championships but in run of the mill competitions, one can quite easily be sandwiched between 2 pro riders even at the lower levels. Eventers embrace it - not sure why it's such an issue with dressage when there's already bronze/silver/gold? BD need to be a bit stricter on the champ rules however.

The US rules are bonkers!

 

[Lucky Snowball]

I enjoy eventing - warming up alongside a top rider is amazing. They are usually riding a young horse and so the competition is still fair.

 

[McFluff]

I’m another who feels that if people meet the eligibility criteria, they can take part. If they are better than me on the day, so be it. I don’t see how it matters what their job is.
From a sport perspective, equestrian is a bit unusual as there are so many people who work in the horse industry and don’t have particular advantage if they compete (arguably less if they work long hours), yet are seen as professional. Yet in other sports, people are only professional if they are paid to be on the competition circuit (so they only train or compete).
On the plus side, equestrian is one of the few sports where you can compete side by side with those at the top of the game.

edited to remove my iPads input!

 

[catkin]

I don't get this debate I really don't. If someone satisfies the eligibility criteria they are perfectly entitled to compete. If they don't then they aren't. Some "amateurs" are more skilled and have more money to buy better horse power than many "professionals". Many who would satisfy a "professionals" definition have specialisms which are not pure dressage and do not ride for others for a living. In my competing days, when there was no regionals/area festival divide, I had no objection to being beaten by by those who are better than me. Just inspired me to work harder to get better and know what I am aiming for. On the occasions when I beat "professionals", I just gave myself a pat on the back and felt quite pleased. I don't understand the "everyone is entitled to win something" brigade. I don't see the attraction of winning a class of the also rans! I prefer proper competition with a chance to compete against the best.

Agree.
Also there used to be terrific bragging-rights if you beat a Big Name (even if you were nearly last )?

 

[Cragrat]

i think the Bronze / Silver / Gold does go some way to sort his - though perhaps Silver could somehow be split a bit more. Perhaps add a Platinum section, move existing Gold into Platinum, and the upper level Silver in to Gold.

But in general, I like that in equestrian sports you get to compete as equals, regardless of gender, age, experience, background etc. You choose the class level according to your OWN, or your horses ownm ability, and do your best against whoever else chooses to compete at that level.

 

[Caol Ila]

Oh, USEA amateur rules.... How I love you. If you want light entertainment, search the Chronicle of the Horse Forums for any thread pertaining to the amateur rules. Hours of fun await.

 

[hollyandivy123]

actually on the rare time....................read once in 20+ years coming above a name is worth it

i agree that there needs to be a slight change with the bronze silver and gold in British dressage.

and LEC loving the clarity of the American rules!

 

[RachelFerd]

Those amateur rules would wipe out pretty much every person I have ever met eventing at Novice or above - I don't know anyone who doesn't do a little bit of equestrian work, even if 'on the side' to supplement their non-horsey job. Although I'd probably give up the little extra bits I do in order to claim amateur status properly. So net balance of that is it would be removing access to knowledge in the industry in a way...

 

[humblepie]

As others have put amateur can be so many different situations - from the person who works full time in an office with a horse at fairly basic DIY livery (hello) to someone with amazing facilities at home, does horses full time and has grooms. Similarly some who works full time away from horses but does odd horse bits to supplement their income can fall into professional. I am another who likes to compete against the best and love the opportunities you get to do that.

 

[LEC]

Those amateur rules would wipe out pretty much every person I have ever met eventing at Novice or above - I don't know anyone who doesn't do a little bit of equestrian work, even if 'on the side' to supplement their non-horsey job. Although I'd probably give up the little extra bits I do in order to claim amateur status properly. So net balance of that is it would be removing access to knowledge in the industry in a way...

i tend to do everything for labour but I skirt the line in the American rules as ride horse for someone else but I pay for my livery through it. No money crosses hands. I am amused that the Instagram kids would be wiped out immediately and that I am all for! Hence it’s just not a thing in American with amateur eventers.