project horses

[henryhorn]

We've decided to buy a couple of project TB's and although I've bought hundreds of horses in my time I've rarely had an ex racehorse!
Do the yards sell direct or do they always go through the sales?
I've actually seen whole box loads going through Potters abbatoir at Bristol, is there any way of seeing them beforehand?
Any tips anyone? Ones that don't suit us will likely go back to to the sales, but whilst we have time on our hands we fancied something new..
We are very experienced with all sorts of problem horses before anyone jumps in saying beware, we have sorted lots of nappy ones with success, but also realise there are a few totally nutty racehorses who are only suited to that discipline.
We're going to visit a few sales over the next month and see what's there, but any direct contacts would help, it would be better to be able to talk with a horse's groom really to assess it.

 

[lisaward]

oo sounds great fun ,good luck

 

[ExRacers]

Go to www.horse-directory.co.uk/exracers.htm

Loads of them for sale or looking for good homes on there. Also get plenty of advice and support as well!!

 

[Christmas_Kate]

Alot of yards will sell directly, so if you know anyone who has a contact with a racing yard that's probably your best bet, and sometimes they just give them away......

 

[seabiscuit]

HH both my horses are Ex racehorses and Forrest I got from the Tattersalls sales last year.

I would ring up a few local trainers and see what they have got, then you can check out the horses form on the internet and see how much time off they have had to have from problems.The racing post is fantastic and tells you everything- how much the hrse sold for,its brothers and sisters, also might give a few tips on temperment ( there are some horses that constantly refuse to race).
Personally I would try and go for a horse out of national hunt training rather than a flat racer. Because they race at 2 year olds that can cause a multitude of physical problems, as I have had with both of mine, also Boss had countless probs with her flat racer too.It was bad luck of the draw, but flat racers are just more prone to physical problems that take years to iron out.
Ascot sold a load of untouched race bred 3 year olds last month for under £2k.
Do not expect to make a quick turnover on them,sometimes you can if you are lucky, but the reality is that they can take a good year to iron out and make into performance horses.But it is luck of the draw really, not saying that there are not horses out there that won't adpat to a new career quickly, it is possible.

 

[tashyisaudrey]

sounds great - good luck

My friend who's a jockey bought a 4 yr old unbroken - It arrived in a state and it was her project to bring it on and sell it. Totally different horse now - so amazing.

 

[Tangaroo]

Does it have to be an ex racehorse? I have a friend with a three quarter thoroughbred mare of about 15.2hh that she is looking to sell. It has a lot of talent but is also a MARE!! Not that i usually have anything against mares!

 

[Lucy_Ally]

I am not sure if you can intercept horses from Potters, I know what you mean though as they have the ginormous artic usually crammed with horses, often there are some lovely ones as well which is pretty heartbreaking. It may be worth phoning Stephen Potter up as he may be let you buy from him once the owners have handed them over. They kill horses on a wednesday and sometimes a monday if they have a lot in, it may be worth a shot and you could probably get them for a little over meat value. They have large corals where they keep them (some come in the night before), when we are down there collecting tissue we often see the horses beforehand and chat with the vet and see their passports etc, we sometimes chat to the dealers/owners who bring them down - but you have to be a little careful doing this. As we are there for research purposes we are allowed "backstage" so to speak, I am not sure on the rules for the general public.
Otherwise it may be worth approaching trainers direct and seeing if they have any not making the grade, but probably yur best bet are the sales.
Good luck - it sounds like fun!

I however could not go to the abattoir with any money in my pocket as I would end up buying a load of old crocks as I feel sorry for them!

 

[Claireg9]

arghhhh thats awful, i tend not to think about the abatoir... if i dont think about it, its not there. Now you've brought it all back to me

Why does there have to be such things?
If i had the money land or time id have a retirement home for the ex racers, and if i get any of them right loan them out to people a bit like Ada Cole!
I too could not go there as id come back with as many as i had the money for, would haggle alot too!!
Then id cry all the way home!
Good luck with your project though its nice someone has the time money and inclination to save even just a couple!
xx

 

[bandit]

oh this sounds like a real project and one i'm sure you will very much enjoy.

i can't help you with any of your questions about where to buy, but i've just bought myself a very lovely 6 yr old mare who came off the flat track and has been retrained as an eventer over the last 2 years - i'll let you know how I get on!!!

Bx

 

[racingdemon]

super idea HH, you'll have loads of fun, i think everything i'd have suggested has already been covered, but if you do get any direct from the road to potters i'd be very wary of why they are there, trainers (in general) are coming to realise how easy (relativly) it is to get rid of failed racehorses (to new homes) and those on thier way to potters may be more likely to have real problems rather than just an attitude that needs adjusting,

you can also turn them round more quickly if they are already well balanced, so i'd approach trainers with better reputations and facilities, as they tend to invest more into each horses performance than some of the lesser ones, saying that they may know they ahve a better horse & thus want more for it,

good luck! and every one i've had has gone far better in a plastic bit

 

[PoppyPony]

my instructor got one directly from the yard

 

[sillygillyhorse]

Drop SillyMare a pm she bought one from Doncaster. I think it came from Kim Bailey's yard but had never raced.

I guess I would try local trainers first they may have just what you are looking for and it saves them the hassle and cost of taking them to the sales.

I appreciate what has been said about flat horses and problems arising from doing too much to soon but buying something that has raced/schooled over hurdles/fences has to be completely re-educated about how to jump!

Sounds like fun though and let us know what you get and how it gets on.

 

[SillyMare]

Just spotted this one - yes, we have a lovely boy from Doncaster.

Not sure I would rush back there though - anything decent was not all that cheap and there were lots of dodgy ones (and lame ones!). Plenty go through the ring for under £1k, but not many that you would want to take home!

It doen't seem to be the norm to offer vetting either so you will need to look very carefully at what you buy.

In fact in the whole day there was only about 3 or 4 I would have bought (we eventually bid on 3 and bought my boy right at the end of the day). Actually, as an aside, the prices did dip significantly right at the end when a lot of people had already bought and left.

Definitely try contacting the big trainers - you would have more opportunity to look at it and ride it on the trainers yard than at a sale. however lot of trainers are getting wise to the fact ex-racers are fashionable at the moment so the prices are on the increase!

I am leaving in a few minutes and away for the next week - PM my mum (Turbobert) if there is anything you would like to know about my racehorse.

 

[LEC]

Our friends 3 yo TB went through Doncaster unbroken well bred for £2k they were very annoyed. I would go for local trainers first - shame Exeter does not have a market anymore. We have sold a few through there.

 

[vicijp]

You could try Bill Bryans 'retirement sale' tomorrow. Apparently there are quite a few there which just happen to have been in training with a certain son in law of his!

 

[seabiscuit]

Yes I agree with SillyMare- I went to the Tattersalls horses in training sales which is a top quality sale, there are 1400 lots on offer, I had a look at about 50, and there were only 2 horses that I considered 'sound' and would have taken home. By sound I dont just mean not lame, but able to pick up each leg properly and bend at the joints. Horses still 'good' enough to carry on racing went for £20,000-which were horses I would not have touched with a bargepole due to their crippled state.. My little one that went for 800 guineas had far better movement, balance, soundness and temperment. Was shocked at how appallingly crippled a lot of the 3 year olds were-they could hardly shuffle along in trot.It was quite depressing how crippled they were actually. They were then sold for 10 k plus. How they were able to go on and race I dont know.

 

[aran]

i'd go direct to the trainers or sales - to be fair the majority at the abbatoir are the injured ones - most have vet wrap on something.
good luck - i'd love to have the guts to go to the sales to get a 3yr old - be fantastic!

 

[Lynz25]

Warning -- long one

I bought an ex racer last year. He was sold at Ascot in the Feb for about £500 then I bought him in the June for £1500 (found this out only recently - arse). Not a bad mark up really. He has an old injury to his canon bone (reared in the stalls) but this causes no problems - floats across the field and jumps 3ft on the long lines (seems the bigger we go the better he jumps). We've not really ridden him in the last 6 months as he has had 6 teeth coming through which were causing him to rear / buck because of the pain. The vet and dentist feel this is due to him being inbred so having a smaller mouth (Northern Dancer on both sides) Now been concentraring on long lines so that he doesn't accociate pain with riding. It could be another 6 months before they are all through.

He has really changed since owning him but has taken a long time - he is quite laid back in his manners though not like some. He can now walk into his stable with out knocking himself out(he had no judgement of distances - quite how he raced god knows), can pick up his feet without knealing on the other, when he backs up he know doesnt try and sit down on his hocks (very scarey when you are trying to mount!!). He has now stopped box walking and I can leave him in the field on his own. Even though he is one of the quiet ones it has taken 18months from being out of racing to get this far and we are only on the basics.

Since getting him I've been told some info apparently the cheaper horses / ones no longer quick enough to race tend to go through places like ascot / doncaster. Also one of my friends got one directly from the racing yard for really cheap.

In hindsight I would probably get an unbroken horse rather than an ex-racer as you have to undo the damage / learnt behaviour from their previous career ie increased pressure on the mouth means go faster in racing where as when I asked for a half hold going down a hill I got a nice rear instead!!! Although it has been great with lots of rewards but fustrating at times to see the development.

As regard to the abbatoir I'd end up in tears and wanting them all. Its bad enough knowing that my horse's half brother is being sold at auction next week - my boyfriend has baned me from going.

Good luck if you do get one. Also the rehab of racehorse centres are great on the phone with advice

 

[vicijp]

I find all these assumptions about ex racehorses very ill informed. I have known hundreds, maybe thousands, of racehorses in training and the ones that had serious behavioural problems I could count on one hand.
As for buying from the sales Henryhorn, im sure you will go there with your eyes wide open. The expensive ones are being cashed in, the cheap ones are being thrown out for whatever reason. Anything we buy from the sales goes out in the field for 6 months minimum, it is guaranteed they have a problem, a little time to mature can overcome most things.
Tips for sales:
*Dont buy anything that hasnt raced for 3 months + - it is guaranteed to have been patched up.
*Dont buy anything that has a break in its racing career of more than 5 months - it is guaranteed to have had a serious injury, remember blistering will cover most things up.
*Dont buy anything that had more than 3 runs in its first season(I look for horses who have had 1/2 runs then 4 months off) - it will have been running on patched up sore shins and is a definate when not if it will break down.
*Dont buy from a trainer who has a lot of 2yo/NHF winners - the horse will have been hammered along with the rest, and is the one that couldnt stand it.
*Dont buy from a top/good trainer - they get the best from their horses at whatever cost, howver many fall at the wayside.
The best and cheapest buys at any sale are 3yos that have had a few runs. Leggy types that still havent grown into themselves.
I have every confidence that you will be succesful HH, but please go to the sales having done all the research.

 

[vicijp]

Forgot to say, if you do get to talk to a horses groom at the sales dont believe anything they tell you. Most of them will reply 'I not speak English' - the trainers do it on purpose.
Ring the trainer after you have brought it and they will(hopefully) be truthful.
Also, when buying at a chuck out sale (ie not yearlings or stores) the general majority go through 'sold as stands'. This doesnt necessarily mean they are lame. The industry works in such a way that when a small man is selling, the vet will quite easily fail horses for the big men to buy cheaper. This happens more at Donny and Tatts then Ascot. Most trainers put them though sas to waylay any hassle - nothing worse then them taking one home when they have already filled the stable.

 

[nelgonde]

Agree with vicijp on this one. We've had a fair few travelling thru our yard. Often for a change of career. All have had good manners.

We've recently had one from Robert Alner's - he picks smart horses.

It's quite easy to get a few contacts in racing. Find out which trainers knacker their horses, which are horsemasters, which take shortcuts, and which are a bit useless! But all want to offload their slowest horses.

Pop down to Newton Abbott, hang round the parade ring and chat to some of the owners and stable lads/lasses. They always like talking about their horses. And you soon get ideas about who's who in racing.

Alternatively go to the Ascot sales, the October and November ones are approaching. Here you go: Brightwells Link