Promising dressage horse spooky jumper

[Hormonal Filly]

Hi all,


I have a lovely 15.2 just turned 6, bay gelding I’ve backed and bought on myself since a baby. The aim was to event him but not sure if it is something we’ll ever get around to.

Hes a pure D but most instructors have commented his movement is very warmblood like and one even saying (and isn’t one to say nice things lol) hes HOYS quality and they’ve previously had horses win HOYS. He naturally holds himself very nicely and is full of power with lovely gaits.

Start of this year I thought now hes 6, I’ll start doing some more jumping this year as hes physically matured but he is a typical welsh. I had a go at cross country training this spring but hes VERY laid back so it was hard work and stopped at most fences, same as show jumping. Hired out a show jumping arena, he stopped at everything even a cross pole before walking over it and then doing the course nicely in a trot, but its all major effort. We’ve done a few funrides and he pulled me into 3’ fences by that wide, with no leg!

I ended up giving jumping a break and after a chat with an instructor (and she convinced me) we started done something he enjoys, unaffiliated dressage. He has been placed in the top 2 every time out with just under 70% in each test, placing first in his first test. Not bad providing I’ve never done any dressage and his first time out competing. We went to a show jumping clinic last week, the green class, he only refused one jump out of everything, which was a filler so some improvement since the spring and we cantered around the course at the end.


We have a field with some cross country jumps and he’ll still try and stop at them every time before jumping – yet he sees them most days so can’t be scared and we must of jumped them tons of times! I don’t see the point of going to any competitions, we’ll go round doing emergency stops at every fence before walking over it. Its probably just greenness but never experienced a horse struggle so much and it puts me off any aspect of jumping him.

I still can’t ever imagine him doing a hunter trial or a show jumping round even in a few years. Its even more irritating he’ll stop at every fence, walk over it and then the next time round he’ll pull me into it.

I’m not sure if its him being green, taking the mick, or just his odd personality but wondering if he'll ever grow out of it.

I’m starting to enjoy dressage more.. but personally love an odd hunter trial and any kind of eventing, even local ODE’s is great fun. I wrote a advert to sale him but pulled out on it as am far too attached (he has a real great personality) but part of me thinks he needs to go to a home that will bring out his dressage ability, as I can’t bring it all out of him. L

 

[be positive]

I have had a few that really did not take to jumping despite being given every chance, a few that grew into it once they either gained strength or confidence but in the main the ones that jumped well always jumped well from day 1 even if they had never seen a pole before it seemed natural for them.
I decided a long while ago that it is better to work with their talent rather than try to fit a square peg into a round hole, life is too short to continue with a horse that is obviously not enjoying it or simply lacks talent so if he were mine I would have 3 options give him some intensive schooling, possibly with a pro rider, and see if he improves over the winter, give up trying and concentrate on what he is good at and change my ambitions or sell, all options are fair and it is your decision to make but if I really wanted to event I would sell.

 

[SOS]

It’s unclear from your post but did you ever teach him to jump? Sounds ridiculous but some horses need that slight bit more explaining. I would take the jump right down to basics with poles on the floor, practising canter poles, pole courses and adjusting the canter between two poles a distance apart. Then when confident build up to raised poles/very small grids. And go from there. Loose jumping may also be an option.

Sounds to me like the horse does jump (fun rides?) so I wouldn’t give up yet, but he is not sure how and probably does need that extra bit of support. Young horses often benefit from a lead XC when starting off. Also be honest and ask yourself are you the most confident jump rider? If no this needs to be worked on and taking it slow will help. You could be unknowingly putting him off.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

It’s unclear from your post but did you ever teach him to jump? Sounds ridiculous but some horses need that slight bit more explaining. I would take the jump right down to basics with poles on the floor, practising canter poles, pole courses and adjusting the canter between two poles a distance apart. Then when confident build up to raised poles/very small grids. And go from there. Loose jumping may also be an option.

Sounds to me like the horse does jump (fun rides?) so I wouldn’t give up yet, but he is not sure how and probably does need that extra bit of support. Young horses often benefit from a lead XC when starting off. Also be honest and ask yourself are you the most confident jump rider? If no this needs to be worked on and taking it slow will help. You could be unknowingly putting him off.

I would of said no but someone else mentioned teaching him to jump so I done that at the start of this year and last winter. He's done tons of pole work lessons, canter poles, lessons with over 50 poles no problem and grid work sessions, trotting over poles, turning them into cross poles etc he’ll get that but as soon as you do a course or it’s something new is the problem.
He won’t loose jump whatsoever, stops, spins, it’s a pointless exercise with him unfortunately he’s to smart.
I’ve had quite a few lessons and they’ve not said it’s me, I’ve done so much jumping on my other horse, 95cm hunter trials, definitely not nervous or hesitant etc but I’ll mention it at my next lesson!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Have you tried pairs jumping? That might be a helpful stage for him.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

Hi all,


I have a lovely 15.2 just turned 6, bay gelding I’ve backed and bought on myself since a baby. The aim was to event him but not sure if it is something we’ll ever get around to.

Hes a pure D but most instructors have commented his movement is very warmblood like and one even saying (and isn’t one to say nice things lol) hes HOYS quality and they’ve previously had horses win HOYS. He naturally holds himself very nicely and is full of power with lovely gaits.

Start of this year I thought now hes 6, I’ll start doing some more jumping this year as hes physically matured but he is a typical welsh. I had a go at cross country training this spring but hes VERY laid back so it was hard work and stopped at most fences, same as show jumping. Hired out a show jumping arena, he stopped at everything even a cross pole before walking over it and then doing the course nicely in a trot, but its all major effort. We’ve done a few funrides and he pulled me into 3’ fences by that wide, with no leg!

I ended up giving jumping a break and after a chat with an instructor (and she convinced me) we started done something he enjoys, unaffiliated dressage. He has been placed in the top 2 every time out with just under 70% in each test, placing first in his first test. Not bad providing I’ve never done any dressage and his first time out competing. We went to a show jumping clinic last week, the green class, he only refused one jump out of everything, which was a filler so some improvement since the spring and we cantered around the course at the end.


We have a field with some cross country jumps and he’ll still try and stop at them every time before jumping – yet he sees them most days so can’t be scared and we must of jumped them tons of times! I don’t see the point of going to any competitions, we’ll go round doing emergency stops at every fence before walking over it. Its probably just greenness but never experienced a horse struggle so much and it puts me off any aspect of jumping him.

I still can’t ever imagine him doing a hunter trial or a show jumping round even in a few years. Its even more irritating he’ll stop at every fence, walk over it and then the next time round he’ll pull me into it.

I’m not sure if its him being green, taking the mick, or just his odd personality but wondering if he'll ever grow out of it.

I’m starting to enjoy dressage more.. but personally love an odd hunter trial and any kind of eventing, even local ODE’s is great fun. I wrote a advert to sale him but pulled out on it as am far too attached (he has a real great personality) but part of me thinks he needs to go to a home that will bring out his dressage ability, as I can’t bring it all out of him. L

My first reaction would be that he is finding jumping difficult because he is stopping/hesitant. Could he have bone spavin? When a horse jumps they have their hocks under them in order to push off and clear the fence. If he has mild arthritis he might be finding this uncomfortable. Although he would be young to have spavin it isn't unheard of in a horse his age. Other than that I would also wonder if he just lacks confidence, not in you, but in himself.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

My first reaction would be that he is finding jumping difficult because he is stopping/hesitant. Could he have bone spavin? When a horse jumps they have their hocks under them in order to push off and clear the fence. If he has mild arthritis he might be finding this uncomfortable. Although he would be young to have spavin it isn't unheard of in a horse his age. Other than that I would also wonder if he just lacks confidence, not in you, but in himself.

Oh no.. don't say that.
Hes so far the only horse I've ever owned thats not had something wrong or required x-rays yet. I do worry with him sometimes but not sure if its him just being him.. he is very laid back but ALWAYS rests his hind legs, dressage tests we regularly get marked down on the halt as he rests a hind leg and he tends to stop going down hill, then rest a leg. Hes always had wingals. I got a vet to take a look in 2016. She done all flexions, lunged on concrete, in arena and said hes 100% sound even after flexion tests so it put my mind at rest and since then I've forgot about it.

Funny thing is though if with another horse jumping he'll not even look and he can give a beautiful natural outline in walk, trot and canter and elevate himself over poles.. mmm. Could be worth a look, thank you!

 

[Pinkvboots]

Why dont you show him sounds like he would do really well.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Why dont you show him sounds like he would do really well.

He would do extremely well showing, so I've been told.. but have no idea where to start! We have another dressage competition Sunday so will see how we get on.

 

[Pinkvboots]

You could start at a low key local show and enter a native ridden class and see how you go, there are are loads of classes and shows for Welsh if you wanted to really do it seriously, if his a real quality horse I would consider doing qualifiers for the bigger shows like royal international and Hoys it could be the making of him, there is a forum called Horse Gossip lots of showing people go on there they would know where to start.

 

[ycbm]

He sounds a bit like my wobbler, who c/wouldn't jump. In retrospect, it was because he didn't know where his hind feet were. Has he got an elevated trot? The big trot, I was told, often goes with being a wobbler.

 

[SpringArising]

He sounds a bit like my wobbler, who c/wouldn't jump. In retrospect, it was because he didn't know where his hind feet were. Has he got an elevated trot? The big trot, I was told, often goes with being a wobbler.

Most Ds have a fabulous, elevated trot so I'm not sure that would be accurate in this case.

 

[Abi90]

I had a horse just like this. Nothing wrong with him. Just a bit stupid when it came to jumping, he was scared of poles on the floor.

He’s now hacking and doing low level dressage with a lady that shares his opinion on jumping

 

[Snowfilly]

I brought a connemara mare years ago who had never jumped at the age of 19. It took 18 months of what you described - every fence had to be stopped, sniffed at, inspected and then jumped lovely. It didn't matter if it was the same fence the next day! She'd sometimes jump on a fun ride but would normally bounce to a halt to check.

I was a broke 16 year old who wanted to jump so we kept going and one day, something went click in her brain and she never stopped at anything again unless I buried her in it. We had 4 years of decent competion before her age caught up.

As yours is only young and as long as he jumps with no sign of pain, I'd say it's worth keeping going for a while yet. Welsh can be slow to mature mentally so he might still learn.

 

[Goldenstar]

I would get a vet to flex his hocks .
I think I would talk to a vet who does problems with performance type work ups and do a very basic workup as a start .
If you can let the vet see the behaviour .

 

[Goldenstar]

Ps how his canter on the flat ?

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I would get a vet to flex his hocks .
I think I would talk to a vet who does problems with performance type work ups and do a very basic workup as a start .
If you can let the vet see the behaviour .

He had his hocks flexed last year when I was worried that he rests his hind leg a lot.

Ps how his canter on the flat ?

His canter still is very green and struggles worse on one rein but he canters in a nice outline, we had a prelim dressage test Sunday and came 2nd with 68.1% but he did struggle on the left canter which is his weaker rein. If you watch the video of him though he moves nicely from behind.
I'll look into it.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

You say he moves nicely behind but does he consistently have a slight drag to his hind feet when trotting (on concrete you might see sparks from his shoes) or on a surface you will note the surface kicked up where he drags his toes. Compare with other horses for an example.

Does he ever change behind or do a funny 'hop' on a corner in canter? Does he resent having a lunge line or other aid behind his back legs trying to bring his hocks under him and buck or bronc? Does he look like he leaves his legs behind when he trots? These are all symptoms of spavin and some are displayed in more severity than others.

You say he had his hocks looked at last year, but given that we are towards the end of this year and depending on when he was looked at that could well be anything up to 20 odd months ago and things can change dramatically in that time in terms of arthritic changes. Even if he has spavin there's a huge amount can be done, I know of horses that have had tildren, fusion or just simple steroid injections and bute like my horse and stayed sound for many years so it's really not the end of the world, so try not to worry x

 

[Hormonal Filly]

You say he moves nicely behind but does he consistently have a slight drag to his hind feet when trotting (on concrete you might see sparks from his shoes) or on a surface you will note the surface kicked up where he drags his toes. Compare with other horses for an example.

Does he ever change behind or do a funny 'hop' on a corner in canter? Does he resent having a lunge line or other aid behind his back legs trying to bring his hocks under him and buck or bronc? Does he look like he leaves his legs behind when he trots? These are all symptoms of spavin and some are displayed in more severity than others.

You say he had his hocks looked at last year, but given that we are towards the end of this year and depending on when he was looked at that could well be anything up to 20 odd months ago and things can change dramatically in that time in terms of arthritic changes. Even if he has spavin there's a huge amount can be done, I know of horses that have had tildren, fusion or just simple steroid injections and bute like my horse and stayed sound for many years so it's really not the end of the world, so try not to worry x

No never dragged his hind feet at all, never seen any sparks and the surface doesn't get kicked up. He has never changed behind or done any hops in canter. He doesn't mind having a lunge line behind his bum, or pessoa etc and never bucked or bronked with a rider on or when lunged. He looks nice when he trots and even been told he has a nice canter by a dressage instructor just unbalanced for a green horse as in a field he'll canter for ages but in a arena he finds it more difficult with circles etc, just always thought its because hes so green.

Worth getting the vet to re look - thank you

 

[millitiger]

you don’t say how experienced you are with jumping or whether you have taught a horse to jump before?
If they show little natural inclination it can take a certain type of rider until jumping clicks for them.
Have you tried a much more experienced jump jockey for 3 or 4 goes to see if there is improvement?

I do have a mare who I bought to event- not naturally the bravest but ok around 90-1m.
I wanted to do more though so switched her to dressage and now she is enjoying her work so much more in general and competing Medium with plans to move up.
Sometimes you just have to listen to what your horse is trying to tell you- I was gutted as mine has a really super technique and can jump a house but her nerve got the better of her.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I'm no professional by any means, but all of my horses were bought as youngsters for pennies and I backed them myself. I taught them all they know and both my other horses jump well, one successfully show jumped just unaffiliated and the other I've done tons of hunter trials with, ODEs and the odd show jumping but hes best at hunter trials and never had a issue with them. My gelding just lacks impulsion in general and when nervous he comes into himself, so when jumping he is almost backwards and makes it more difficult.

I haven't had anyone else ride him but myself (a friend once, but thats it) I've had lessons with experienced riders, one a british show jumper, but they just say hes very green and almost babyish when it comes to this but has tons of scope.

His nerve gets the better of him a lot unfortunately, hes only 6 but hoping it will improve. Our test Sunday was in a tiny indoor with a viewing area (hes never seen one of those) and never been in a indoor before, and we managed to get 2nd place. If we done that last year he'd of been spooking at everything but he didn't spook once so he has improved.

I think it doesn't help I don't jump him as regularly now, I use to try and do it once weekly but it doesn't seem to matter if we do it weekly, if we go into the XC field he'll still refuse the bench jump once before jumping it every time and then not even look at and pull me into it. I had a mare years back who had arthritis in her hocks and KS, she wouldn't jump whatsoever.. no making her and would go vertical but my gelding isn't like that. Once hes looked, he'll WANT to jump it and seems to enjoy it.

 

[EllenJay]

Couple of things spring to mind. Firstly - for a Welshie he is probably still quite young mentally - they do take a lot of time processing things, but once it clicks they are brilliant. Secondly, it "may" be your riding, and if you now expecting that he is not going over first time and has to look, he may be picking up his instructions from you and doing what you expect him to do - (Welshies are sometimes far to bright for their own good!)

It may be a good idea to get an experienced jump rider to take him over a course of fences to see if he reacts the same way

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Couple of things spring to mind. Firstly - for a Welshie he is probably still quite young mentally - they do take a lot of time processing things, but once it clicks they are brilliant. Secondly, it "may" be your riding, and if you now expecting that he is not going over first time and has to look, he may be picking up his instructions from you and doing what you expect him to do - (Welshies are sometimes far to bright for their own good!)

It may be a good idea to get an experienced jump rider to take him over a course of fences to see if he reacts the same way

Thank you - how true. He is ridiculously clever. He can opens his door, unties himself if not done a certain way, unties any horse tied by his stable or undoes their head collar (means no horse can be tied by him, hes that good at it!) if he doesn't get fed when I put him in the stable he'll throw his bucket at me and have a tantrum for hours about it. He is a funny chap with a huge personality.

Yes possibly! I use to look up, be extremely confident but you get so use to stopping I feel I now look down and almost I expect it, which means I am giving him those leg aids too.

There is a 60cm cross country clinic this weekend with a great instructor, a hour away but means he'll be in a group lesson doing 60cm cross country which may help his confidence. Its quite expensive though.