Pros competing with newbies.

[Ambers Echo]

I know there has been a similar thread but I can't find it so I will restart this discussion. I am heading to Bradwall this weekend. The start list for the BE90 reads like a who's who of eventing with 4* eventers, trainers, producers etc in the mix. Does not seem right to me that I am competing against people like that! Maybe riders as well as horses should have points and once you have got points or competed in advanced classes you need to compete in open sections or HC?

Or maybe they are HC and I just can't tell from the website? But they are not listed in the open section.

I am not competitive anyway so it won't affect me but it must be galling for amateurs for whom doing well at BE90 is the pinnacle of their ambitions to be knocked out of the placings by Olympic medallists!

 

[ihatework]

If they are advanced they have to compete either HC or in an open section

But to be honest, when I was Eventing at the lower levels I LOVED that I was competing against names

 

[Ambers Echo]

Ok well some must them be HC!! And yes it is exciting that 'names' will be there! It makes me assume it is a good event. But at the same time, being placed at BE90 would be a dream come true for me. But for others it's just a schooling round so it would be a shame for placings to go to pro riders who are just their to school their youngsters round. But if advanced riders must compete HC that makes more sense.

 

[ihatework]

Ok well some must them be HC!! And yes it is exciting that 'names' will be there! It makes me assume it is a good event. But at the same time, being placed at BE90 would be a dream come true for me. But for others it's just a schooling round so it would be a shame for placings to go to pro riders who are just their to school their youngsters round. But if advanced riders must compete HC that makes more sense.

I had a look at the entries, I really can’t see many 4* riders on the list, only JB is the big name.
Might be some mid level/producers I don’t know about, but they have every right to run competitively if they are eligible. Remember lots of them will be running green horses for owners who also have every right to be in it to win it.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Yes that's true. I guess I need to try and stop feeling so intimidated! Its localish to me and a lot of the names I recognise are local trainers. Riding against them feels very weird so I'd really like them to go off and be scarily competent in another class..... but my 2019 mantra was I DO BELONG HERE. And breathe.....

 

[Michen]

I do think it’s wrong when you see pro riders competing in unaff lower levels, and not HC!

 

[Snowfilly]

It's a tricky one...on one hand, I know they're taking the placings that you want a crack at, and in eventing, I think there's also the limit on how many horses can start so perhaps they're taking chances away there.

On the other hand, my pride and joy moment as a teenager was beating a local pro in the 1.00 class at a local show - open to all. It was the biggest class I'd jumped and it was a run out for his new green mare, but we beat them and it was the most satisfying feeling ever. I watched her jump 1.20s later on and always remembered the day she did a lap of honour following my scruffy native! I wouldn't have traded that day for anything.

 

[TheMule]

Isn't that half the fun of eventing?!
I'd rather that than compete with the 'professional' 90 rider who has been to Badminton grassroots a squillion times on the same horse

 

[Red-1]

I love that it is all a mish mash. I love that I have competed against and beaten big names. I hated it when BD split classes.

 

[oldie48]

My daughter's biggest thrill was following a "name" into the ring and goodness if she got better score, that really was the icing on the cake. I think it's important to remember that any pro that is competing at your level will be on a very young inexperienced horse and is out to give it a good experience or is taking a "problem" horse round for a client.

 

[The-Bookworm]

If they are eligible then have the right to be in the class.
Don't forget you would also run yours at a lower level for schooling, education, confidence building.

For someone who isn't competitive, instead of thinking about who you are against, watch and learn from who you are with.

Mary King often uses unaffiliated courses to bring on youngsters. How do you think horses move up the ranks. They wouldnt be putting a novice on a horse that was green in the hope they could take over at 1*
It's a recipe for disaster.

 

[TGM]

Surely that is partly the attraction of competing in affiliated competition, in that you are up against a high standard of competition. For people who want a more restricted playing field then there are unaffiliated competitions which often have stricter eligibility requirements ie often classes where competitors are not to have won at such and such a level.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Thanks everyone. Very helpful reframe! My new ambition is to beat someone who teaches me or my kids!!

 

[PaddyMonty]

I used to love competing against the big names. Adds to the excitement unless they do their dressage just before you.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I am not competitive

Snorts !

 

[Ambers Echo]

Snorts !

I meant I'm too rubbish to trouble the leaders!!! I aspire to being competitive!

 

[TRECtastic]

Years ago I beat Dag Albert at eland lodge hunter trials .
I still cherish the memory of him standing at the presentation in a jacket covered with sponsors while I was in my sweaty X country shirt , sponsored by no one 😂

 

[Nicnac]

For people who want a more restricted playing field then there are unaffiliated competitions which often have stricter eligibility requirements ie often classes where competitors are not to have won at such and such a level.

Hmmmm, an unaff 80 section last Friday was won by a rider who completed Burghley I think I prefer BE where at least they have eligibility requirements at the lower levels.

 

[Michen]

Surely that is partly the attraction of competing in affiliated competition, in that you are up against a high standard of competition. For people who want a more restricted playing field then there are unaffiliated competitions which often have stricter eligibility requirements ie often classes where competitors are not to have won at such and such a level.

They don't though. Go around your average local unaff 80/90/100 and it will be full of pros. I can think of several serial offenders, who are happy to win at 80 unaff and pick up the rosette even if they are 4 (now 5)* event riders. Bit rubbish really, I think BE is better where it is genuinely restricted.

One of my proudest moments was getting a better dressage mark (by 0.5!) than Zara Philips who was HC in my section. Hehe.

 

[be positive]

I walked an unaff 90 course one day with the girl riding my livery and a young rider who has been round 4*'s, we got to a big ditch/ rail at which point the pro declared she was 'going to die'!!!, had no chance of getting the horse round for it's owner, she was right, an E at that fence whereas ours jumped it and came home with a ribbon.
Many pros tend to use unaff to get their more tricky youngsters going, usually around a BE standard course without it being on their record if things don't go to plan, I have never seen it as an issue, they will rarely turn up at the lower levels for long as they move on faster than the rest of us and don't spend too much time on anything that is obviously not going to make the grade.
Like someone said earlier riders still going out at 90/100 after several seasons getting to the GR champs, having 100's of FP's should be in an open section if they don't want to move up a level, I have no problem with them competing but think something needs to be done to get them in their own section to level things up a bit more.

 

[tatty_v]

I’ve never competed at an affiliated level but it happens all the time at unaffiliated dressage round us. I remember being over the moon to have qualified for the prelim class at the unaffiliated dressage champs at a prestigious venue near us a couple of years ago. This soon turned to dismay when I realised who was in my class. Never mind I thought, they’ll be bringing on young horses. Nope! I got squashed against the wall in the warm-up by a lady who has competed in Olympic para dressage and won many regional and national BD titles on the same flipping horse, doing canter half-pass in the prelim warm up! I can see the funny side now, but at the time I was fuming!

 

[TGM]

They don't though. Go around your average local unaff 80/90/100 and it will be full of pros. I can think of several serial offenders, who are happy to win at 80 unaff and pick up the rosette even if they are 4 (now 5)* event riders. Bit rubbish really, I think BE is better where it is genuinely restricted.
.

You must be unlucky in your area then - here is the eligibility criteria for a local one day event - was just the first one I picked:

A horse or rider is ineligible to compete in a class if, in the two years prior to the competition, they either have been placed 1st - 3rd .. in any competition involving jumping fences at:

50cm class: 80cm or higher
70cm class: 90cm or higher
80cm class: 100cm or higher
90cm class: 110cm or higher
100cm class: 120cm or higher

 

[Bernster]

It’s never happened to me as they don’t wallow in the depths of 50/60 where I am currently haha. I wonder if I’d feel different if they were in the same class as me though. For now, I like that you can compete against your ‘heroes’ or see them at the same events. I fence judged Tina cook at Munstead and i was so chuffed.

I was up against a Whittington last weekend in a 60 ODE. He came 4th I think. His dad Francis was in the warm up. His son was about 6 and tiny, and they did brilliantly. I very nearly did one of those ‘I know you from somewhere but I can’t remember where’ when I realised I’d seen him on the tv!

 

[TGM]

I was up against a Whittington last weekend in a 60 ODE. He came 4th I think. His dad Francis was in the warm up. His son was about 6 and tiny, and they did brilliantly. I very nearly did one of those ‘I know you from somewhere but I can’t remember where’ when I realised I’d seen him on the tv!

Max Whittington is a fantastic rider, but definitely quite a bit older than six! He is in our Pony Club and hunts with our local bloodhound pack. Francis is lovely and really helpful and reminds me of another reason why it is good to compete against the pros. One year at Tweseldown BE someone got eliminated in the showjumping and came out of the ring to try and jump the horse over the warm up jump again. However, the horse wasn't having any of it and kept refusing. Francis happened to be in the warm up at the time and gave her some suggestions of what to do and got the horse jumping again. As far as I know, he had absolutely no connection to the horse or rider.

 

[Bernster]

Oh they all look teeny tiny to me haha. I think there were two boys there as thought I heard two Whittington names being called out. Anyhow I wasn’t the least bit bothered by being beaten by a talented tot, it happens a lot in my classes!

 

[tatty_v]

Oh they all look teeny tiny to me haha. I think there were two boys there as thought I heard two Whittington names being called out. Anyhow I wasn’t the least bit bothered by being beaten by a talented tot, it happens a lot in my classes!

Around us they often split the jumping classes at 50/60/7 into over and under 16s, otherwise I would constantly be bottom of the pile of talented children! 😂

 

[The-Bookworm]

Just because someone has ridden at 4* star doesn't mean they necessarily won it or were placed or even finished though.

My RI was an eventer but she would be allowed to ride mine round any event because that combo hasn't won anything.

 

[The-Bookworm]

Just looked at the riders and there is only one I recognise who is riding a youngster. It's the fourth run for that horse and they came 20th previously.
I think it's nice to watch the pros bringing on their babies, building up their confidence.

 

[Templebar]

I think for those who have a bigger problem UA it's because even though there are sometimes rules to stop this there is nothing to enforce them and even then they are usually the combo. However it doesn't matter if it's UA or affiliated what annoys me are those who have a horse capable of moving up a level and they continue to keep it at that level where they can win usually, sometimes for years. For those bringing young horses through i have no problem they are doing their job but to keep going out and winning at the same level must get boring.

 

[alexomahony]

I think it's exciting! If I were in your position, i'd be watching them warm up and full on, shamelessly copying them in a hope to make me ride better