Prospective horse purchase - advice needed

[NotInTheKnow]

Hi everyone,

I need advice (and/or warning) on this prospective horse purchase I'm about to explore from those who have been there, done that, learnt the highs and lows of it all. Please bear with me for the long read!

The horse in question is a 14 year old grey Lusitano gelding schoolmaster/PSG level, owner is selling due to financial difficulties. Xrays available and passed 5 stage vetting in January.

Here's the curveball.

It was a stallion less than 4 months ago and the owner had it castrated in January because her yard wouldn't take a stallion. She said he has healed and is being ridden again. And it had melanoma, which was lasered off (she can show proof).

History wise, the current owner only had him since January this year (is this a red flag?). Prior to her, he was owned by GP riders who were breeders for 2 years and before that it was in Spain where it was bred/raised. I gathered these during our first phone call, so not able to verify yet and see documentation.

Is this a hard no?

If it's a 'maybe, with a big but' then read on...

If you were me:

1. what questions will you be asking the owner
2. which professionals will you be turning to
3. what due diligence will you do on your own
4. during the viewing, what should I be sussing out beyond the obvious

Firstly about me: I'm a solid intermediate who came late to the party as an adult rider and is now proper horse mad. I've ridden Lusitanos including stallions in Portugal in one of those intensive horse riding holidays (I go every 2 months in the last year). I also do 1:1 training here in the UK quite regularly on schoolmasters. I've completed BHS Stage 1 last December and I am now considering buying my first ever horse.

My goal is to be a decent rider following the classical dressage principles. I have no interest in competing at this stage (though I'm not completely ruling it out in the future).

Thank you all so much!

 

[I'm Dun]

I'd be thinking they bought him, he was too much so they cut him, he's still too much so now he's for sale. I'd be asking some pertinent questions about behaviour.

 

[ihatework]

How long have you been riding, what do you class as a solid intermediate and where/how do you propose to keep the horse?
Has your current UK instructor been to see the horse with you?

My initial gut feeling is a fairly big ‘No’ from what you have initially written.

 

[shortstuff99]

Firstly I would get on contact with the studbook secretary of the Lusitano Society of Great Britain who will be able to tell you whether this horse is correctly registered in the APSL stud book and with the UK stud book (which is a legal requirement in the UK on import).

Also be very aware that often horses from Spain (particularly Lusitanos) can be not what they claim them to be.

 

[ihatework]

To add further, and I appreciate what I am about to say is a big generalisation. …

These iberians are usually kept entire in their original country. All very normal. They are also kept and ridden in a very particular way.
This often doesn’t translate well when they come to the UK - different ways of keeping and doing stuff can make them trickier - the schoolmaster quickly becomes a train wreck.

And that can be for pretty experienced owners.

Add into that a new horse owner and the other little red flags ….

 

[AmyMay]

If you are hugely experienced and keep your horses at home and have experience of the breed then he may be the horse for you. But I suspect you’re neither of those (apologies if I’m wrong).

It’s not a purchase for the faint hearted or inexperienced.

 

[irishdraft]

If it were me I would be suspicious of reason for sale, only had him 3 months and now has financial difficulties, highly unlikely, more like hadn't gelled for what ever reason. Only cut 4 months ago at the age of 14 would also put me off although some stallions are very well mannered. I think a lot of research into the horses background would be required and also if he has been ridden by pros it will probably be a very different set up for the horse in a livery yard in the UK being ridden by a leisure rider. So unless the history looks promising I would be cautious x

 

[NotInTheKnow]

I'd be thinking they bought him, he was too much so they cut him, he's still too much so now he's for sale. I'd be asking some pertinent questions about behaviour

This is probably the most plausible explanation that I failed to come up with !! And I had the entire afternoon mulling over this. Thank you for pointing out so succinctly what seems so bleepin' obvious !!

 

[ElectricChampagne]

Not much else to add as I think everyone else has covered it.

Too many red flags for me unfortunately. There's better out there without the issues

 

[IrishMilo]

Ignore me, misread the breed!

 

[Caol Ila]

In addition to agreeing with what everyone else has said, I'd add that where there's one melanoma, especially in a grey horse (I'm assuming it is), there are often more. Even if this guy is the paragon of a perfect gentleman, you might always be battling the melanomas.

On paper, it looks like a terrible first horse, even if you've done a few riding holidays. The stallions in Spain/Portugal are kept pretty highly tuned by pros. Once it's owned by a one-horse amateur, who knows how it will behave.

 

[AmyMay]

Good call @Caol Ila the the melanoma. That on its own is enough to walk away.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Also recently cut 14 year old geldings don't often fit into a normal livery horse herd situation, he will probably have stallion tendencies which most livery yards don't want.

 

[nutjob]

I would just add that even if the current owner has had a recent vetting and xrays to definitely get your own vetting done with this or any other horse you are interested in. I have just had a lucky escape from what could have been a very expensive mistake with what appeared superficially to be a very professional outfit dealing with horses imported from Europe.

I've had numerous horses over several decades and a recently gelded older horse isn't something I would take on, nor one with a history of melanomas, some can be internal.

 

[sportsmansB]

In your situation I'd prob be looking for a like minded professional set up close by who specialise in Iberian horses or at least classical dressage if that's what you are looking for. Be prepared to keep your horse somewhere like that at least for the first year.
It is very different going home alone or to a mixed livery yard with your first horse especially if you have a type in mind which is unusual in the leisure horse / amateur market.
Once you have connected with a suitable place to bring a horse, they can keep an eye out for you for something suitable and you can continue lessons in the meantime.
There are too many red flags with this one, but that doesn't mean there aren't any out there, just that you need the help and support to find the right one and set yourself up for success.

 

[Clodagh]

I can’t read what you are writing for the red flags!
The melanoma, it’s good of them to point it out ( unless there’s a scar and they had to) but they get them internally as well and ultimately they can block the gut.
Just no. Sorry. But nononono!

 

[MissTyc]

No.

There are too many horses with fewer red flags to take the chance on this one. The pre-trained opportunity is always attractive, but if you're really into this type of horse and you go on holiday over there, then you'll know that you can pick up a nice pre-gelded one over there any day of the week. Of the AMATEUR imports I know, the flash well-trained ones always turned into disasters as either the level of exercise/training couldn't be sustained, or they got anxiety at being handled differently. The ones that worked out in the amateur market were always the ones deemed boring or ugly over there. And they always trained up sweetly too, because if it's a nice healthy friendly horse, it's going to be trainable, and they do come with some pretty good moves pre-installed.

 

[Nicnac]

I'll be the other side here. My disabled niece (no use of legs/weak core) bought a PRE stallion when he was 13, had him gelded and he is the kindest horse you could ever want. Adapted to her riding and goes off her seat.
He is on full livery with no winter turn out which suits him.
We all said she was mad but have been proved wrong.
Any horse purchase is a big risk. What support do you have?

 

[NotInTheKnow]

Thank you for all your sound advice, this is such a great forum and youre all so full of wisdom, I’m so grateful. It’s a hard pass for me then. I’m glad to draw a line to this!

 

[Glitter's fun]

Can you ask your instructor's advice on what to buy? He/she will be best at knowing what will suit you & will probably have some inside information.

Where are you (roughly)?

 

[shortstuff99]

Thank you for all your sound advice, this is such a great forum and youre all so full of wisdom, I’m so grateful. It’s a hard pass for me then. I’m glad to draw a line to this!

If you're still interested in an Iberian horse than the Facebook group Spanish Horses UK is a good site to look at (they advertise Lusos too).

 

[NotInTheKnow]

Can you ask your instructor's advice on what to buy? He/she will be best at knowing what will suit you & will probably have some inside information.

Where are you (roughly)?

Hello! Yes I could, it’s me that’s the issue actually as I’m quite reticent talking about owning my horse and felt I didn’t deserve it yet at my level… my instructors would bring this up during lessons, in a light hearted way if I may add, no hint of pressure! And I just play coy and say ‘one day!’ as I felt i didn’t want to be up myself during training…

Having said that, I do have a formed idea about what suits me and what I prefer. Which I’m aware are two different things!

I’m based in North London and weekends in Oxfordshire

 

[Glitter's fun]

Hello! Yes I could, it’s me that’s the issue actually as I’m quite reticent talking about owning my horse and felt I didn’t deserve it yet at my level… my instructors would bring this up during lessons, in a light hearted way if I may add, no hint of pressure! And I just play coy and say ‘one day!’ as I felt i didn’t want to be up myself during training…

Having said that, I do have a formed idea about what suits me and what I prefer. Which I’m aware are two different things!

I’m based in North London and weekends in Oxfordshire

Most instructors will have been asked to help with this many times & won't think it's out of place. It's common to pay your instructor to accompany you to a viewing & for them to ride the horse & give an opinion on whether it would be suitable. They're professionals & you'd be paying for a service - no embarrassment involved.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

If you're still interested in an Iberian horse than the Facebook group Spanish Horses UK is a good site to look at (they advertise Lusos too).

You posted links on another thread for 2 nice Spanish horses perhaps they may be a better option for the op?

The black mare looked particularly sensible and quiet i think she was on horse quest, funnily enough I sent the same advert to a friend that was looking

 

[NotInTheKnow]

To add further, and I appreciate what I am about to say is a big generalisation. …

These iberians are usually kept entire in their original country. All very normal. They are also kept and ridden in a very particular way.
This often doesn’t translate well when they come to the UK - different ways of keeping and doing stuff can make them trickier - the schoolmaster quickly becomes a train wreck.

And that can be for pretty experienced owners.

Add into that a new horse owner and the other little red flags ….

thanks for pointing this out, this is not the first time I’ve been told this and yes appreciate it’s a generalisation as you said. But there is something to be seriously considered in that statement esp as it relates so much to the horse’s welfare and not just satisfying the rider/owner. If only the horse could talk!

 

[shortstuff99]

Hello! Yes I could, it’s me that’s the issue actually as I’m quite reticent talking about owning my horse and felt I didn’t deserve it yet at my level… my instructors would bring this up during lessons, in a light hearted way if I may add, no hint of pressure! And I just play coy and say ‘one day!’ as I felt i didn’t want to be up myself during training…

Having said that, I do have a formed idea about what suits me and what I prefer. Which I’m aware are two different things!

I’m based in North London and weekends in Oxfordshire

If you go Oxfordshire way then take a look at Premier PRE Dressage as she is very knowledgeable and often has nice horses in for sale.

 

[I'm Dun]

This is probably the most plausible explanation that I failed to come up with !! And I had the entire afternoon mulling over this. Thank you for pointing out so succinctly what seems so bleepin' obvious !!

Its what happened with my problem child. His issue was mainly pain so I could work through it, and I liked to buy difficult/young/broken horses once upon a time so I knew what I was getting in to. But he's still a very quirky individual and has to be handled in a specific way. And he's a little 14.2hh coloured cob!

 

[Skib]

BHS Stage 1 is good basic education. I took the course myself at my first RS. But Stage 1 doesnt really equip one to school horses or ride dressage. I would do Stage 2, if I were you. If you dont jump at all, consult the BHS about alternatives.

 

[oldjumper]

Hi everyone,

I need advice (and/or warning) on this prospective horse purchase I'm about to explore from those who have been there, done that, learnt the highs and lows of it all. Please bear with me for the long read!

The horse in question is a 14 year old grey Lusitano gelding schoolmaster/PSG level, owner is selling due to financial difficulties. Xrays available and passed 5 stage vetting in January.

Here's the curveball.

It was a stallion less than 4 months ago and the owner had it castrated in January because her yard wouldn't take a stallion. She said he has healed and is being ridden again. And it had melanoma, which was lasered off (she can show proof).

History wise, the current owner only had him since January this year (is this a red flag?). Prior to her, he was owned by GP riders who were breeders for 2 years and before that it was in Spain where it was bred/raised. I gathered these during our first phone call, so not able to verify yet and see documentation.

Is this a hard no?

If it's a 'maybe, with a big but' then read on...

If you were me:

1. what questions will you be asking the owner
2. which professionals will you be turning to
3. what due diligence will you do on your own
4. during the viewing, what should I be sussing out beyond the obvious

Firstly about me: I'm a solid intermediate who came late to the party as an adult rider and is now proper horse mad. I've ridden Lusitanos including stallions in Portugal in one of those intensive horse riding holidays (I go every 2 months in the last year). I also do 1:1 training here in the UK quite regularly on schoolmasters. I've completed BHS Stage 1 last December and I am now considering buying my first ever horse.

My goal is to be a decent rider following the classical dressage principles. I have no interest in competing at this stage (though I'm not completely ruling it out in the future).

Thank you all so much!

Can’t give you any breed specific advice but several years ago came on here to ask opinions on newly cut 9yo stud horse. All responses very positive re temperament/train ability. Only red flag was to beware of infections occurring at site of castration as can be recurrent and hard to shift. You can guess outcome of vetting so sadly walked away…

 

[misst]

Years ago my parents lived in Spain and my daughter used to ride out from the local stables from the age of about 10 to 15 or 16. She rode Lucitano stallions and Andalusian stalions in the arena and hacking out. They were wonderful horses and she looked amazing on them! They were responsive, well mannered and big horses for a child. She was always a good sensitive rider but they really made her look very good. I always thought (in my ignorance how nice it would be to own one). I now realise they were kept "tuned" by really good professional riders and also kept as others have said in a very specific way. I think having one in the UK as an amateur rider, especially a first owned horse, is likely to go very wrong. I can see why you might want though!