Trickywooo
Well-Known Member
I'm sure everyone has heard of what happened before the Grand National over the weekend. Is it time the GN was banned? What about horse racing in general? What are your thoughts?
Protest at the Grand National
- Thread starter Trickywooo
- Start date
OrangeAndLemon
Afraid of exorcism
This might seem odd but my thoughts are that the Aintree leadership should have opened communication and allowed for a peaceful protest to take place and it would have been better for horses and allowed the media to plan and put across the points the protesters wanted to raise.
cold_feet
Well-Known Member
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
They blame the protestors, but there has been many false starts, ( people crossed the line etc never caused accident) I think they need to cut the number of horses down to 30, as IMOP there are too many piling up at the first fence
bonny
Well-Known Member
I think there are much more important things to protest about rather than the annual handwringing about a race.
Ratface
Well-Known Member
I think it should be banned. It reminds me of the unequal struggles of Roman gladiators and slaves.
Too long, too many runners and a a mix of abilities, both human and equine.
Too long, too many runners and a a mix of abilities, both human and equine.
saalsk
Well-Known Member
Big topic. Do I watch horse racing - yes (jumps, not interested in flat). Have done since I was a kid (now 50). Do I hate when they fall - of course. I also (see other threads) had a Dark Ivy moment and didn't watch the GN for a long while. When I did, it was a day later, and having checked who got home, and the ones that didn't. Was it the worst race I have watched ? No. I watched a race a few years ago with 4 runners and one died on course (neck) and one collapsed on the run in (heart attack). 50% death rate for that race. Are other spots as bad - yes - have a look at middle east endurance racing. Have I seen horses die at PTP, 3DE, ODE, SJ etc - yes. Do I wrap mine in cotton wool - probably more than I would admit to. Have I ridden PTP, yes, and ODE, hunter trials etc. As a kid/early teens, did I remember horses getting horrific lami and having to be PTS, no. Were the horses kept at the right weight- yes. Do we put a load of weight on the backs of animals that were not intended to carry such things, and ask them to do sports - yes. Is it cruel - it can be. Are mine spoilt and pampered, yes. Are they all - no. This isn't specific to horses - greyhounds, milking cows, pig crates, battery hens, bull fighting, you name it - we exploit animals in many ways and this is no different. Is it right ? well - thats a big topic.
Did I give my 2 a huge hug on Saturday evening - yes.
Did I give my 2 a huge hug on Saturday evening - yes.
catembi
Well-Known Member
I would like all the exploitations listed by saalsk to be stopped and probably for jump racing to stop. I am not 100% comfortable with the top level of dressage, showjumping or eventing but it’s difficult to think how they could be adjusted to be less hard on the horse. Someone has to win, after all.
OrangeAndLemon
Afraid of exorcism
I think we need a new thread.
There's been a protest at the snooker. All those poor snooker balls being left with headaches at the end of the day
Disclaimer: I have no idea what the protest was about but unlikely to be poor treatment of cue balls.
There's been a protest at the snooker. All those poor snooker balls being left with headaches at the end of the day
Disclaimer: I have no idea what the protest was about but unlikely to be poor treatment of cue balls.
saalsk
Well-Known Member
Ah, Orange and Lemon - is it because they are ranked in some bizarre colour order - some more valuable than others - was that the protest ?!
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
I could write a lot of what Saalsk did
I do watch racing, and I do watch the GN. I find the jumps much more interesting than the flat unless it's a big group one. It's not just jumps, the most sickening injuries are the legs snapping on the flat. Obviously no death is pleasant but seeing a leg just snap so badly it's almost bent double?
Have I been to the races. Yes. Did a horse die. Yes.
There are an absolute tonne of problems in multiple horse sports. Only last weekend an event horse died. It feels like the fatality rate in that is increasing - or is it just better reported now due to social media? Why was it not reported by Horse and Hound? I haven't seen it on their FB page. Could this be seen as covering it up?
Showjumping could be seen as very unedifying in several aspects - the thread posted recently about the horse with all that garbage on his head. You see it a lot. Several stories of excessive use of the whip/ cruelty bans - the guy and his electric shock device?
There are huge problems with endurance.
Dressage you have horses with this excessive movement - how does it stand them up to long term soundness?
"Trail" hunting - you only have to look in the hunting thread to see issues here.
Riding schools - going round a school multiple times a day with different weights of rider with different levels of ability. What enrichment do these horses receive such as going out hacking?
With regards to racing, i think it says a lot that people say before a race "I just hope he comes home safe". So they know there's a strong risk. When I went hacking (given up horses now) I never thought "I hope we come home safe". I'd do everything in my power to keep us safe by listening out and stopping before bends if I heard anything approaching fast. I know horses die on the roads but it didn't make me think "I hope we come home safe" before each hack. Same for him going in the field even though horses die there also.
For me my views on racing are incredibly difficult and I don't think the comments being published from trainers/ racing folk are helping the situation. I'm sick of hearing in any horse sport, although notably racing and eventing, the comments from people on FB who say "at least he died doing what he loved." It's a phrase I despise and is almost sickly sweet. Almost "fluffy bunny"
I like seeing when horses retire safely from racing and go on to new careers. So many don't get out in one piece.
The wastage in trying to breed the best horse is shocking
There are also the obvious welfare issues such as the gypsy cobs. I'm no fluffy bunny and do I think so many should of the poorly bred unrideable types should be taking up spaces in rescue centres? Well let's say I'd need a tin hat for my answer!!
I do watch racing, and I do watch the GN. I find the jumps much more interesting than the flat unless it's a big group one. It's not just jumps, the most sickening injuries are the legs snapping on the flat. Obviously no death is pleasant but seeing a leg just snap so badly it's almost bent double?
Have I been to the races. Yes. Did a horse die. Yes.
There are an absolute tonne of problems in multiple horse sports. Only last weekend an event horse died. It feels like the fatality rate in that is increasing - or is it just better reported now due to social media? Why was it not reported by Horse and Hound? I haven't seen it on their FB page. Could this be seen as covering it up?
Showjumping could be seen as very unedifying in several aspects - the thread posted recently about the horse with all that garbage on his head. You see it a lot. Several stories of excessive use of the whip/ cruelty bans - the guy and his electric shock device?
There are huge problems with endurance.
Dressage you have horses with this excessive movement - how does it stand them up to long term soundness?
"Trail" hunting - you only have to look in the hunting thread to see issues here.
Riding schools - going round a school multiple times a day with different weights of rider with different levels of ability. What enrichment do these horses receive such as going out hacking?
With regards to racing, i think it says a lot that people say before a race "I just hope he comes home safe". So they know there's a strong risk. When I went hacking (given up horses now) I never thought "I hope we come home safe". I'd do everything in my power to keep us safe by listening out and stopping before bends if I heard anything approaching fast. I know horses die on the roads but it didn't make me think "I hope we come home safe" before each hack. Same for him going in the field even though horses die there also.
For me my views on racing are incredibly difficult and I don't think the comments being published from trainers/ racing folk are helping the situation. I'm sick of hearing in any horse sport, although notably racing and eventing, the comments from people on FB who say "at least he died doing what he loved." It's a phrase I despise and is almost sickly sweet. Almost "fluffy bunny"
I like seeing when horses retire safely from racing and go on to new careers. So many don't get out in one piece.
The wastage in trying to breed the best horse is shocking
There are also the obvious welfare issues such as the gypsy cobs. I'm no fluffy bunny and do I think so many should of the poorly bred unrideable types should be taking up spaces in rescue centres? Well let's say I'd need a tin hat for my answer!!
cold_feet
Well-Known Member
It was just stop oil. Dry paint powder dumped on a table, luckily not followed by water.
Poppy+MrDarcy
Well-Known Member
I know that my opinion is unpopular with some but, personally I think it is stupid to put hundreds of horses lives in danger, just for the sake of entertainment, it truly disgusts me thinking about what people find entertaining. I don't think watch any animal possibly getting injured is entertaining.
bonny
Well-Known Member
Every horse in the country is being kept for our entertainment, it’s literally why they are here and in the same vein we decide when it’s the end of the road for them.
Keith_Beef
Novice equestrian, accomplished equichetrian
Every time I go out to ride, OH says "don't fall, come back safe".
When I'm out for a lesson in the arena, I don't give it a second thought; we're on soft sand and I think more about how wet it will be than how hard I will land.
But out hacking I give it a bit more thought...
We have to cross a railway bridge, with its risk of a train going under and blasting its horn.
We meet dogs and cyclists.
We cross a couple of roads and have to go through a couple of narrow gates.
And we have the spooky butterflies and scary crows. And bewilderingly stacked tree trunks or piles of fly-tipped plastic bags. All good reasons for my horse to try to do an impression of a flamenco dancer.
All this on a variety of surfaces ranging from slippy mud over cobbles to deep sand to Tarmac or concrete.
A few years ago I was out on a hack with my school and ended up falling twice on hard ground. I was bruised from my lower back to behind my knees for over a month.
So yes, each time I go out I think to myself "I hope I'll come back safe".
Poppy+MrDarcy
Well-Known Member
I mean as in the horse is being put in danger, yes I know they are kept for entertainment but I clearly stated here "horses lives in danger, just for the sake of entertainment"
fetlock
Well-Known Member
Police horses?
Poppy+MrDarcy
Well-Known Member
Good point
Barton Bounty
Just simply loving life with Orbi 🥰
I don’t watch and I don't go to the races, I never have and never will but… if they didn’t exist I wouldn’t have my amazing BB. So I am thankful for that 
I didn’t like how he was whipped even though he was still winning but I believe the rules have changed on that.
I didn’t like how he was whipped even though he was still winning but I believe the rules have changed on that.
SO1
Well-Known Member
If gambling were banned would it make a difference?
Racing is probably the only equine sport where the majority of followers and many owners have never even sat on a horse and have very little contact with them. It is mainly fueled by gambling rather than because people like horses.
I do feel sorry for race horses because the liklihood of not finding a loving knowledge home once retired is quite high as is the rate of injury perhaps more so than others sports horses.
Racing is probably the only equine sport where the majority of followers and many owners have never even sat on a horse and have very little contact with them. It is mainly fueled by gambling rather than because people like horses.
I do feel sorry for race horses because the liklihood of not finding a loving knowledge home once retired is quite high as is the rate of injury perhaps more so than others sports horses.
fetlock
Well-Known Member
Yes re gambling but because of gambling it won’t be banned (and sadly gambling won’t be either).
What’s the point too of banning it in the UK . Many will just move their operations to another country.
What’s the point too of banning it in the UK . Many will just move their operations to another country.
PinkvSantaboots
Well-Known Member
I heard a report on the radio saying one the horse trainers are blaming protesters for the death of the horse that broke its neck, they said the horses were wound up and hyper and because of the late start it had an impact on how they came out.
Which I agree with to an extent but I think eventually anyone who sits on a horse will be deemed as cruel and unnecessary by protesters.
Which I agree with to an extent but I think eventually anyone who sits on a horse will be deemed as cruel and unnecessary by protesters.
PinkvSantaboots
Well-Known Member
But then the other argument is if everything was gone and we went back to a situation where horses where the only way to travel, do you think the protesters would be so quick to say that's not right I'm not doing that?
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
How many people who ride want to see racing banned? Because it is a slippery slope already started by the uproar over the pentathlon which was no worse than what you'll see at competitions and livery yards all over the country, the only difference being it's not on TV for everyone to see. Be careful what you wish for.
lannerch
Well-Known Member
I’ve just posted this in the other thread , it’s an interesting read
SantaVera
Well-Known Member
Agree with you 100%
SantaVera
Well-Known Member
I ride but like to see racing banned.
bonny
Well-Known Member
Would you also like to see all riding banned ?
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
I ride, I event when I can afford to do so, so am not disillusioned as to how dangerous it can be and yes I do question doing it nowadays when I never used to. I would never compete at the level I used to, I want to lower the risk to my horse so only piddle around at little stuff now. However, I disagree with the GN and racing in general. Ultimately its down to the number of horse deaths. 49 deaths just in the UK races this year so far is not acceptable. It is a difficult thought, I do question should I be riding my horse and I make every effort to try and maximise the comfort of the horse as much as I can (they live out 24/7, I dont carry a whip even when competing, dont use spurs, use minimum tack as is needed etc.).
With regard the petathlon, I agree that you can see some awful things at events but I dont believe you would witness what that girl did in the ring here. I believe any organiser / BS judge etc. would have stopped that behaviour very quickly (elimination helps sort that to be fair). That was an extreme thing and rightly so it was dropped from pentathlon.
Glitter's fun
Well-Known Member
You are entitled to your opinions but need to do some deeper thinking.
Do you hack?
In 2019-2020, which is the most recent information I can find, 1,037 hacking in traffic incidents were reported to the BHS , an increase of 23% compared to the previous year. As a result of those reported incidents (and not all are reported by any means), a total of 80 horses were killed. A further 136 horses were injured.
At least when a horse is injured in a race, there is a vet literally following it round the course a few seconds away & pain relief/pts will be very swift. Sadly not the case if your leisure pony is hit by a car.
Great to discuss this matter but start by admitting that you are part of the problem.
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