Protests today / police horses

honetpot

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They are using horses as tool for crowd control, and depending how that tool is used it can be aggressive and be frightening. If you have ever been pushed over or confined by a horse, even by accident its frightening. Horse were used in the miner strikes to break up crowds, there is also the use of 'kettling' to confine crowds, which is controversial.
I think who ever sent the horses out is at fault, it just escalates a situation, most of the people there will perhaps have never seen a large horse close up, and it just turns the horse in to a weapon being used against them. I wouldn't have thrown a brick but if I had been on foot and horse were coming towards me and I was frightened I would have probably done my best to make them back off.

I understand why people are angry, I think, and a riot over something I unfortunately predicted. You disenfranchise people and they show their displeasure and the government has managed to make a lot of people feel powerless . If you are young and a BAME, a white guy in a suit lying to you and telling you to behave is even more infuriating than it is to me.
There is the constant under currant that young black men are seen as a threat on the street, to start off with. If you have had the police 'assume' something about a situation you are in you quickly realise they are not always on your side, it just happens to BAME people more.
 

dogatemysalad

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They are using horses as tool for crowd control, and depending how that tool is used it can be aggressive and be frightening. If you have ever been pushed over or confined by a horse, even by accident its frightening. Horse were used in the miner strikes to break up crowds, there is also the use of 'kettling' to confine crowds, which is controversial.
I think who ever sent the horses out is at fault, it just escalates a situation, most of the people there will perhaps have never seen a large horse close up, and it just turns the horse in to a weapon being used against them. I wouldn't have thrown a brick but if I had been on foot and horse were coming towards me and I was frightened I would have probably done my best to make them back off.

I understand why people are angry, I think, and a riot over something I unfortunately predicted. You disenfranchise people and they show their displeasure and the government has managed to make a lot of people feel powerless . If you are young and a BAME, a white guy in a suit lying to you and telling you to behave is even more infuriating than it is to me.
There is the constant under currant that young black men are seen as a threat on the street, to start off with. If you have had the police 'assume' something about a situation you are in you quickly realise they are not always on your side, it just happens to BAME people more.

No. The person who threw a bike at the horse and the person who threw a brick at a horse is responsible.
The history of the domestic horse, is that without them, wars would have been lost and more innocent citizens would have died. Today, in the UK, police horses serve a useful function for crowd control at public events. Decent , law abiding people are not afraid of them, they often enjoy patting them and talking to the riders.
Anyone who throws a missle at a horse and rider is just a violent thug. Don't blame the use of police horses, blame the rioters.
 

honetpot

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No. The person who threw a bike at the horse and the person who threw a brick at a horse is responsible.
The history of the domestic horse, is that without them, wars would have been lost and more innocent citizens would have died. Today, in the UK, police horses serve a useful function for crowd control at public events. Decent , law abiding people are not afraid of them, they often enjoy patting them and talking to the riders.
Anyone who throws a missle at a horse and rider is just a violent thug. Don't blame the use of police horses, blame the rioters.

Like I said who ever sent the horses out is at fault, the horse is a tool like a riot shield, and not everyone is going to run or move away. As soon as you deploy mounted police there is a risk to them, you have to asses the risk. Depending on what side of the police line you are on you could say riding horses in to people is organised thuggery.
 

paddi22

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Goldenstar

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I live in London. Horses have always been used to control crowds here - for example every week at football matches. I was pregnant with my first child at an international in 1965 and this Police rider used his horse sideways to push us back onto the pavement. I told him I was pregnant and he was crushing me and he took no notice. I didnt ride in those days or I might have been proactive.

Police horses are used because the rider can see over the heads of the crowd. They are not normally used to charge. I once went to a Michael Peace/Police Horse demo where the audience (us) were asked to habituate the horses to the noise of a seated foorball crowd. Horses that cannit learn to tolerate the pressures are not selected for Police work.

In my youth I went on CND Peace demos. We were a quiet crowd and the Police behaved calmly but my view is that cotrol got much more aggressive about 20 years ago and were used to contain peaceful gatherings like the New Year. On New Years Eve we were there. Crowds were "bottled" meaning sections are kept within a small areas but the underground stations are closed so there is no exit and no way to go to a loo. This started with politial sit ins in Trafalgar Square. One was allowed to leave e.g. to find a loo, but once out, one was not allowed to return.

Our own MP helped organised a demo yesterday on Tooting Common. It looked peaceful and social distancing was observed. But the trouble in London is anger. Everyone we know is angry with Borris and the government and it is hard to separate Covoid from the Race issue. Because the BAME death rate is higher than in the general population. And the lack of social distancing yesterday exposes NHS hospital staff like our daughter to more new cases and more risk.

But the use of horses yesterday to disperse a crowd in Whitehall reminded me of films of the Russian cavalry shooting on crowds in 1905. Because the London population is out of control. On the whole young Londoners did not vote for Boris. But they did vote for Khan and we (mostly) do as he says. But the government is releasing lock down when Khan and our medics think lock down should stay because the figures are stil so bad.
When Cummings broke curfew, his government forfeited any control of lockdown. Borris and Cummings never wanted lock down. The Lockdown was always to benefit mostly the elderly and the government doesnt care whether it is maintained because the plan was always to let the elderly die. What they didnt realise was that it would be so many BAME front line care workers.

If you look at the figures for additional deaths per million of the population you can see that the UK Government have achieved that. But they havent killed their own middle class parents. We, the white middle class elderly, are tucked up safely in isolation.

I am appalled at peoples behaviour and in my opinion it it’s dishonours the George Floyd
 

AmyMay

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I think it's disgusting and these protests should not really be allowed at the moment, they are all packed in together like sardines but it's ok because it's a protest I think it's joke, yet you can't even go into a shop to buy a pair of jeans this country is ridiculous.

Actually I’m not sure they are being allowed. They are simply going ahead....
 

southerncomfort

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My understanding is that the plan was to be as hands off policing the protests as possible. Perhaps they thought they'd just use the mounted police to observe initially. Unfortunately the protest inevitably turned violent. For me that would have been the point to pull the horses out.

I know several people who work for the police and they've been very upset by the anti police rhetoric they've seen bandied about even by friends.

Do we have some bad apples in our police forces? For sure, and more needs to be done to root them out, but the racism is nowhere near as endemic as it is in the US.

For me, attacking our police because of something that happened in America, where a succession of useless presidents have done little to nothing to address racial hatred and inequality, makes no sense.

Our country still has its problems and much more needs to be done but thank God we are not America where a black woman can have the cops called on her for sitting on a park bench minding her own business, or a black man can be chased down and shot while jogging in a park.
 

PSD

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I have absolutely no words. The world is a very scary, sad and worrying place at the moment.

I’m struggling to understand how violent riots are going to help anything with the BLM movement. It’s just causing an even bigger divide
 

Cinnamontoast

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I have absolutely no words. The world is a very scary, sad and worrying place at the moment.

I’m struggling to understand how violent riots are going to help anything with the BLM movement. It’s just causing an even bigger divide

Could not agree more. The unfortunate rent a mob, as bobnotacob says, are, as usual, making what could be a peaceful protest violent and poorly perceived.
 

PapaverFollis

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Does anyone know what the knee boot-boot combo is that the police horses have on?

#completelyignoresallrealdiscussion
 

Lammy

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The UK police are in no way innocent or totally unlike their American counterparts. For those saying they don’t understand the protests against our police here, racism is endemic in our society including our police force and it is killing people. Just because it is not as visible here as it is over in America does not mean that it is not a problem.

Furthermore, independent analysis of the figures found that where use of force or restraint was applied, black and minority individuals were twice as likely to die in police custody than white individuals.”

if you were twice as likely to die in police custody here in the UK just because of the colour of your skin, you might be angry too.

I don’t think fighting violence with violence is going to solve any situation. However I think most of the protests in America have escalated because the police themselves have escalated them, there are many videos of police shooting at peaceful protesters, news crews, etc. I haven’t seen enough of what happened in London to say what caused the escalation but there are many examples of peaceful protests in the UK this week.

And if there is an increase in covid-19 cases then I hope people are as quick to blame the masses of people who gathered at the beaches and parks over the past weekend as they are the protests.
 

Goldenstar

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The UK police are in no way innocent or totally unlike their American counterparts. For those saying they don’t understand the protests against our police here, racism is endemic in our society including our police force and it is killing people. Just because it is not as visible here as it is over in America does not mean that it is not a problem.

Furthermore, independent analysis of the figures found that where use of force or restraint was applied, black and minority individuals were twice as likely to die in police custody than white individuals.”

if you were twice as likely to die in police custody here in the UK just because of the colour of your skin, you might be angry too.

I don’t think fighting violence with violence is going to solve any situation. However I think most of the protests in America have escalated because the police themselves have escalated them, there are many videos of police shooting at peaceful protesters, news crews, etc. I haven’t seen enough of what happened in London to say what caused the escalation but there are many examples of peaceful protests in the UK this week.

And if there is an increase in covid-19 cases then I hope people are as quick to blame the masses of people who gathered at the beaches and parks over the past weekend as they are the protests.

People where as quick to blame those being nutty at the beach however there was no violence involved in that so it’s not so worthy of condemnation .
Those people on beach did Not cause police officers to have to risk there lives .
 

Wishfilly

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It's a real shame that the large protests that went ahead peacefully in Birmingham and Manchester aren't getting the same kind of coverage as this one incident. In Birmingham, I think something like 4000 people went to the demo, and there were NO arrests.

In London, I don't think either side covered themselves in glory, yesterday- Everything about that video of the mounted police charging is uncomfortable to watch, and I do think there is a conversation to be had about whether it is fair to put horses in those positions.

I think it's really sad that might be the only experience some of those people have had with horses.
 

Red-1

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I do have some experience of these situations, both with the training and the experience of being personally in similar situations. But, am somewhat stressed about other matters at the moment, and it is an emotional topic, especially considering some of the comments on here, so I can't really answer questions or comment on people thinking the Police are being thugs. It is too much for me right now. I am not intending to engage in argument.

I can say that people generally think that there are a lot more Police Officers available than is the reality.

I can say that sometimes situations overwhelm the available Officers. We are people too. Our guts clench.

I can say that sometimes action is a matter of life and death. No joke. Not that the Police would be dangerous if left to room the streets on their own. LOL.

I can say that sometimes people need directing away from danger, other groups, certain areas. A horse can indeed do the work of 10 Officers in that situation. With less risk to Officers too.

I also would like to point out that these are the same horses and Officers who visit schools, fetes etc as a public relations exercise. I have been in a similar (but smaller scale) experience where people were trying to pull foot officers into he thick of a crowd to kick them in, and I have had to go barge, charge, do whatever I could to 'rescue' those Officers. The thugs (not the Police) were punching my horse and trying to rip the bridle off. I was spinning, hitting, doing what I had to, to keep myself, my horse, my colleagues, the public and yes, even the thugs safe. It is what we do. Keep people safe. We drove the violent thugs (not Police Officers) away from the danger area and to a clear space. At the end of the street I was adrenalised, breathless, exhausted and...

A little girl was sitting on dad's (I presume) shoulders. They stopped me and asked if she could stroke the horse. I hadn't realised the tension in my chest, the tension in my jaw, in my lips over my teeth, in my shoulders and hands. I had to mentally shake and consciously rearrange my face. Form a smile. Say yes, of course.

The horse had a stroke. He let go some tension too. We had Polos. It was...nice.

Same horse and rider. Same uniform. Same street, same day, 5 minutes apart.

I guess they are only intimidatory if you are dong something wrong? Of if you don't like them, stay away?

As to the training, yes they are trained. But, I'm not sure you can train any horse to accept pain and stand still. Yes, the horse launched forwards. I have seen some photos where it looked like a bike was also launched at that horse, as well as the darker one.

I feel for the rider. She is in hospital, not life threatening. I don't suppose she will be back doing anything physical any time soon still. I feel for all of the horses. They aren's pets. There to do a job.
 

Lammy

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People where as quick to blame those being nutty at the beach however there was no violence involved in that so it’s not so worthy of condemnation .
Those people on beach did Not cause police officers to have to risk there lives .

I would say selfishly cramming yourselves onto a crowded beach against guidelines and without reason is a violence against society as a whole.
Police officers would have been present trying to Police those crowds too so potentially risking their lives similarly.
 

dogatemysalad

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Like I said who ever sent the horses out is at fault, the horse is a tool like a riot shield, and not everyone is going to run or move away. As soon as you deploy mounted police there is a risk to them, you have to asses the risk. Depending on what side of the police line you are on you could say riding horses in to people is organised thuggery.

Do you think it's acceptable to throw a bike or a brick at a horse ? To lunch a missle from a distance means that the attacker is not beside the animal.
 

ester

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People where as quick to blame those being nutty at the beach however there was no violence involved in that so it’s not so worthy of condemnation .
Those people on beach did Not cause police officers to have to risk there lives .
They did cause other emergency services to do so though?

TBF I can't throw either of my bikes very far, they aren't really very good projectiles.'

I have been surprised, generally, how many think that people in the UK are protesting about about a US issue.
 

planete

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We have stopped using horses in war, we should also stop using them in any potentially violent situations. It is quite simply unfair on the horses. I know it is a lovely tradition in this country but it is out off step with duty of care to animals as it is accepted nowadays.
 

angrybird1

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I completely understand why people are angry. What happened to George Floyd was completely wrong and unnecessary.
The thing is though we are in a pandemic here. Sadly after seeing the crowds yesterday we will soon be in a second spike it's inevitable.
Those people have signed the death warrant of lots of innocent people.
In no way am I saying what happened to George Floyd was right and the police officers that killed him should be punished and nothing like it should ever be allowed to happen again.
However, has anyone seen George Floyds criminal record? He wasn't just a innocent passer by.
Before anyone gets upset by this I'm not saying what happened was in anyway justified or right. It was a disgraceful thing to happen but he wasn't just someone the police picked on randomly.
 

tda

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I do have some experience of these situations, both with the training and the experience of being personally in similar situations. But, am somewhat stressed about other matters at the moment, and it is an emotional topic, especially considering some of the comments on here, so I can't really answer questions or comment on people thinking the Police are being thugs. It is too much for me right now. I am not intending to engage in argument.

I can say that people generally think that there are a lot more Police Officers available than is the reality.

I can say that sometimes situations overwhelm the available Officers. We are people too. Our guts clench.

I can say that sometimes action is a matter of life and death. No joke. Not that the Police would be dangerous if left to room the streets on their own. LOL.

I can say that sometimes people need directing away from danger, other groups, certain areas. A horse can indeed do the work of 10 Officers in that situation. With less risk to Officers too.

I also would like to point out that these are the same horses and Officers who visit schools, fetes etc as a public relations exercise. I have been in a similar (but smaller scale) experience where people were trying to pull foot officers into he thick of a crowd to kick them in, and I have had to go barge, charge, do whatever I could to 'rescue' those Officers. The thugs (not the Police) were punching my horse and trying to rip the bridle off. I was spinning, hitting, doing what I had to, to keep myself, my horse, my colleagues, the public and yes, even the thugs safe. It is what we do. Keep people safe. We drove the violent thugs (not Police Officers) away from the danger area and to a clear space. At the end of the street I was adrenalised, breathless, exhausted and...

A little girl was sitting on dad's (I presume) shoulders. They stopped me and asked if she could stroke the horse. I hadn't realised the tension in my chest, the tension in my jaw, in my lips over my teeth, in my shoulders and hands. I had to mentally shake and consciously rearrange my face. Form a smile. Say yes, of course.

The horse had a stroke. He let go some tension too. We had Polos. It was...nice.

Same horse and rider. Same uniform. Same street, same day, 5 minutes apart.

I guess they are only intimidatory if you are dong something wrong? Of if you don't like them, stay away?

As to the training, yes they are trained. But, I'm not sure you can train any horse to accept pain and stand still. Yes, the horse launched forwards. I have seen some photos where it looked like a bike was also launched at that horse, as well as the darker one.

I feel for the rider. She is in hospital, not life threatening. I don't suppose she will be back doing anything physical any time soon still. I feel for all of the horses. They aren's pets. There to do a job.
Just liking didn't seem enough, thankyou for your post, xxxx
 

dogatemysalad

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We have stopped using horses in war, we should also stop using them in any potentially violent situations. It is quite simply unfair on the horses. I know it is a lovely tradition in this country but it is out off step with duty of care to animals as it is accepted nowadays.

What are your suggestions for controlling violent protests ? Would you prefer tanks, water cannons or tear gas or should we allow the police and innocent bystanders to be attacked and buildings and cars destroyed.
I'm genuinely interested to hear any ideas for either dealing with mobs or should we allow them to run amok and let the tax payer pick up pieces afterwards ?
 
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