Proud flesh… prevention?

[4Hoofed]

So last Saturday morning my big boy woke up choosing violence, opened the door, blood everywhere, tree trunk leg, had a on cut his hind left about 2 inches below his hock on the front of his cannon bone. It was 5am. So I cleaned it up, took some photos, dressed it and rang the vet at a more reasonable hour

We stitched, antibiotics, dressed it and it’s been redressed twice, stitches are out as it’s knitted a bit but the edges have separated. Now the wound looks soo much better then I thought it would, tree trunk leg was down within 12 hours, box rest is hell but it is just skin so luckily not lame so I’m riding out to keep him occupied. Vet removed the stitches that had separated today, and the granulated tissue below is healthy and pink but she mentioned and I agree looks like it might turn into proud flesh. don’t get me wrong, I’m happy he’s sound and not in pain but I really like showing. I’m not a winner by any means but ANY tips for reducing proud flesh, and scaring is appreciated.

Currently has a honey dressing on, is very much still an open wound, but pink, healthy, good blood flow. I can post pictures but they are graphic obviously! He’s being hacked out once a day and walked out the other end which has kept the swelling in check. Stable bandaged overnight, grooming above and below the dressing twice a day as he’s itchy and for blood flow, vet has said my ancient equissage is fine to keep him happy! But anything I’m missing? Any advice? bloody horses.

 

[Exasperated]

If proud flesh develops, can be subsequently cut back (no nerves in p.flesh, altho will bleed) and copper sulphate applied to stop it growing back. But NOT while wound is fresh or there are sutures in it.

 

[4Hoofed]

If proud flesh develops, can be subsequently cut back (no nerves in p.flesh, altho will bleed) and copper sulphate applied to stop it growing back. But NOT while wound is fresh or there are sutures in it.

Yeah the vet had said she will cut back if it gets proud, I just have the feeling that even though it’s not the worst wound in the world by any means it’s going to be an ugly scar. I’m trying to use my calm experienced head that what will be will be lol but grasping at scar reducing straws!!

 

[planete]

Keep using the honey dressing. I have always had great results with it with minimal scarring. It took six weeks of wound dressing and bandaging to heal a similar injury on one of my horses though.

 

[scats]

Manuka honey worked miracles for my mare who was hit by a tractor prong and sliced her leg down to the bone. The scar now compared to the original injury is unbelievably faint.

 

[ycbm]

In the old days we just used to burn back proud flesh with copper sulphate solution or once from a vet, ferrous sulphate paste. Nobody considered it a big deal, it was just one of those of things that horses (but not usually ponies) do.

Also where you describe it, front of cannon, nowhere near a joint, no skin movement to speak of, I'd have him turned out to keep the blood flowing round his leg.
.

 

[4Hoofed]

In the old days we just used to burn back proud flesh with copper sulphate solution or once from a vet, ferrous sulphate paste. Nobody considered it a big deal, it was just one of those of things that horses (but not usually ponies) do.

Also where you describe it, front of cannon, nowhere near a joint, no skin movement to speak of, I'd have him turned out to keep the blood flowing round his leg.
.

Tbh I can’t wait to have him out but it’s far too muddy. Our pen had sunk and is not useable until I can rehardcore. I’m riding him for 1 hour + a day, hand walking for 30 mins the other end and whilst I’m there he’s loose on the tad mooching. Farrier is due out so I’m going to have his back shoes off as I’m hoping that will help with circulation. why he couldn’t have waited till summer when he could have stayed out 24/7 I don’t know, but I might see if I can borrow a friends field that’s down the field and too far for her, as it would be better for him not to be standing really.

 

[only_me]

Manuka honey!
My 17hh ISH got into a battle with the sh1tland and came off worse - sh1tland not a mark on him. We think he got impaled on a gate spike


They are massive pics so apologies, not entirely sure how to make them smaller! edited - remembered! So yes gory but at least you now have the option to view in smaller lol.
he just had manuka honey applied twice a day and on yard rest rather than stable rest so could walk around to help with swelling.

 

[4Hoofed]

Manuka honey!
My 17hh ISH got into a battle with the sh1tland and came off worse - sh1tland not a mark on him. We think he got impaled on a gate spike


They are massive pics so apologies, not entirely sure how to make them smaller! edited - remembered! So yes gory but at least you now have the option to view in smaller lol.
he just had manuka honey applied twice a day and on yard rest rather than stable rest so could walk around to help with swelling.

This makes me hopeful. I’ve resumed trot work after chatting with the vet as he was becoming rambunctious with just walking and resting, and he was jog trotting and prattling about anyway. Unfortunately he’s a bit of a force of nature, I can have him on the yard when I’m there, but he knows he can break through the feed room doors so can’t be unsupervised if he’s not secure he’s over 18hh and easily 950kg so we have to accept our limitations sometimes.

Small blessing is we know he did it in his stable so vet was happy that it wasn’t from a kick etc and very pleased with its location as it’s avoided all major structures. I’m just a worry wort I think and have a history of these sorts of things… escalating. Or revealing the most obscure underlying conditions. So I get a bit panicky. Objectively looking at those pictures he’s lucky and it’s not that bad! That healed amazingly!!

 

[dreamcometrue]

Hi. My pony had an injury as a youngster and already had the scar and proud flesh when I bought her. She has recently had a bone chip removed from the site and in the later stages of recovery we used a pressage bandage to help it to heal more neatly.

Trying to post photos but they are too large

 

[ponyparty]

I used Wonder Dust to reduce/prevent proud flesh on a wound my mare had last summer.

 

[4Hoofed]

I'll have a look at that every little helps!

 

[ponyparty]

There’s another product as well that I can’t remember the name of but it was a faff to apply - wonder dust came highly recommended by the trainer I sent her to and it worked a treat!

 

[MissMoo]

There is a product called Equiaide (https://www.stirlingandcentral.co.uk) which worked really mare on my mares fetlock injury last year (apologies, I don't remember how to upload photos) left her with minimal scarring from a nasty cut

 

[ycbm]

I used Wonder Dust to reduce/prevent proud flesh on a wound my mare had last summer.

Here's what's in Wonder Dust. The copper sulphate alone will deal with the proud flesh.

• Activated charcoal: Helps prevent proud flesh and removes odors
• Copper sulfate: An ingredient in Wonder Dust
• Flowers of sulfur: An ingredient in Wonder Dust
• Hydrated lime: Makes up 71% of the powder
• Iodoform: An ingredient in Wonder Dust
• Potassium alum: An ingredient in Wonder Dust
• Tannic acid: An ingredient in Wonder Dust

 

[Nasicus]

A previous mare of mine did a number on herself with a big round, open wound like @only_me's photos, on her canon bone.
We used manuka honey to start but that did too good of a job and encouraged the proud flesh.
We ended up cutting it back once or twice, and then kept it in check with Vulketan Gel, did a good job!

 

[ponyparty]

I started out using some black paste concoction that I can’t remember the name of now, before the wonder dust... If I’d kept doing what the vet said (bandage from hoof to hock and box rest so it didn’t slip down, applying manuka honey and steroid cream on alternate days for potentially weeks) I’d have lost the plot, and so would my mare so started turning out without bandage using the black paste, and then the wonder dust. Worked a treat, even if the ingredients were dubious and/or a rip off

 

[ycbm]

11I started out using some black paste concoction that I can’t remember the name of now, before the wonder dust... If I’d kept doing what the vet said (bandage from hoof to hock and box rest so it didn’t slip down, applying manuka honey and steroid cream on alternate days for potentially weeks) I’d have lost the plot, and so would my mare so started turning out without bandage using the black paste, and then the wonder dust. Worked a treat, even if the ingredients were dubious and/or a rip off

I honestly despair of the current veterinary protocol for wound management. There seems to me to be as much damage being caused by bandages and box rest as some of the wounds themselves. Some of the worst scarring (and biggest bills!) I've seen had been from bandage necrosis. Horses with no joint problems coming off long box rest with joint problems. I've seen pictures of a wound that was heavily stapled that was almost identical to one a horse of mine got in about 2010, (where the vet explained that since the blood supply came in from the top the flap was going to die back whatever he did, and to leave it). And then bandaged as if the leg was broken. And box rest for weeks. I can't help but feel it's more about not being sued for things going wrong than it is about doing the right thing for the horse as a whole. I've had proud flesh growing out of a wound in 1988 and the vet threw me a tube of ferrous sulphate and told me to put it on until the flesh was below skin level and the skin would grow in. It did. No bandage, turnout with an open wound as it was on a fetlock. I'd have done what you did.

 

[ponyparty]

I honestly despair of the current veterinary protocol for wound management. There seems to me to be as much damage being caused by bandages and box rest as some of the wounds themselves. Some of the worst scarring (and biggest bills!) I've seen had been from bandage necrosis. Horses with no joint problems coming off long box rest with joint problems. I've seen pictures of a wound that was heavily stapled that was almost identical to one a horse of mine got in about 1998, (where the vet explained that since the blood supply came in from the top the flap was going to die back whatever he did, and to leave it). And then bandaged as if the leg was broken. And box rest for weeks. I can't help but feel it's more about not being sued for things going wrong than it is about doing the right thing for the horse as a whole. I've had proud flesh growing out of a wound in 1988 and the vet threw me a tube of ferrous sulphate and told me to put it on until the flesh was below skin level and the skin would grow in. It did. No bandage, turnout with an open wound as it was on a fetlock. I'd have done what you did.

I’ve seen photos of wild horses (brumbied and mustangs) with horrific wounds, which over time - and no human intervention - heal marvellously with no box rest and bandaging etc. I’m not suggesting that we start just ignoring wounds, we clearly need to prevent infection, but the approach my vet wanted was wayyy OTT. My poor sweet little mare was starting to get very upset at being confined - prolonged box rest isn’t something I’m willing to do to a horse, it damaged my last horse psychologically permanently (before I bought him).

Also agree with your point on vets potentially trying to avoid being sued. Also worth noting that this particular practice (not my usual practice, just happened to be on the yard when she was injured) were recently bought out - it all seems to have gone downhill from there.

 

[4Hoofed]

I mean the vet that responded to the call is young and has a good head on her shoulders! Was happy for him to stay in work and normal routine, just not wanting it to get muddy… he now has a lovely chaff bag leg warmer and she’s happy so he’s out and about!!! Fingers crossed the amount of movement will keep the circulation up! He’s a rather large thug so keeping him in once he wants out isn’t really possible. I keep trying to upload pictures but can’t seem to get them to take this time!

 

[4Hoofed]

I’ve seen photos of wild horses (brumbied and mustangs) with horrific wounds, which over time - and no human intervention - heal marvellously with no box rest and bandaging etc. I’m not suggesting that we start just ignoring wounds, we clearly need to prevent infection, but the approach my vet wanted was wayyy OTT. My poor sweet little mare was starting to get very upset at being confined - prolonged box rest isn’t something I’m willing to do to a horse, it damaged my last horse psychologically permanently (before I bought him).

Also agree with your point on vets potentially trying to avoid being sued. Also worth noting that this particular practice (not my usual practice, just happened to be on the yard when she was injured) were recently bought out - it all seems to have gone downhill from there.

I have to say we have a practice round here that’s obsessed with bringing horses in to their practice for a day stay for things I’ve always had done on yards (debridement, joint injections, limb X-rays etc) which I think is a money making exercise, but I watched multiple vets come out to a friends horses wound and it was painful. A lot of practices are very over cautious these days, and full of a lot of young vets who are worried to prescribe anything beyond box rest, bandage and bute. The original vet in that case prescribed 5 rounds of the same antibiotic for an infection that wouldn’t shift. Eventually she had to move vet practices to get swabs and IM ABs. I think finding good vets is get harder and harder.

 

[Ditchjumper2]

@ycbm oh how I agree. My old vet treated the horse as a whole. We'd come back from Rossdales etc who'd say box rest yadayada and he'd say turn him out and we did. Box rest especially on an older horse causes more problems.

The problem with younger vets is they don't have the experience or the knowledge to make those common sense decisions.

 

[4Hoofed]

@ycbm oh how I agree. My old vet treated the horse as a whole. We'd come back from Rossdales etc who'd say box rest yadayada and he'd say turn him out and we did. Box rest especially on an older horse causes more problems.

The problem with younger vets is they don't have the experience or the knowledge to make those common sense decisions.

I think as well the younger vets are sometimes scared of the what ifs and discussing risks.