Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
Some questions please?
Have read and been told so much over the past few days that my brain is full.
Have read and been told so much over the past few days that my brain is full.
Pssm experts can I pm you
- Thread starter Slightlyconfused
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Mongoose11
Well-Known Member
If you do a search then you'll find FfionWinnie's posts on here which are really helpful and pretty comprehensive. I know that her management of her PSSM mare is second to none.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I have two with it, both much milder cases than FW's is. Not all horses need a grass free life and exercise regime as controlled as the severe cases. Feel free to PM me, but why don't we share info so other people can learn too?
be positive
Well-Known Member
I am no expert and have just one livery with it, which I did pm for info as the horse is not mine so I didn't want to put details on the forum, I think the more info can be shared the more we can all learn about managing horses with the condition, the symptoms can be very subtle, it is a condition that seems to be picked up by owners more than vets or physios, if there had been nothing on here I would never have thought of it for the mare in my yard.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Only a week or so ago a vet asked me what alcar was and why I was feeding it. Since it is possibly the most effective supplement for mild/moderate PSSM horses, I was pretty astonished at her lack of knowledge 
paddy555
Well-Known Member
Only a week or so ago a vet asked me what alcar was and why I was feeding it. Since it is possibly the most effective supplement for mild/moderate PSSM horses, I was pretty astonished at her lack of knowledge
mine didn't know what PSSM was! I think they were grateful when I didn't ask them how to manage it.
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
Okay horse had a mild tying up season on Saturday morning while playing in the lunge pen over a cross pole, horse is 16'3 so it really was just a little play. He has had a week off but that's never affected him before. He has had three weeks off before and been lightly hacked and been fine.
Vet was called, he had gone back to normal by the time she came and other than being tired trotted up sound, muscles nice and relaxed and no pain anywhere.
Took bloods all normal no muscle damage.
So light hacking and gently bring back into work and monitor could be a one off could be the start.
Look at feeding vit e oil.
That's where we are now.
Was just wondering advice form others.
He is very very difficult to feed as he just likes grass and hay or I can get Bailey's fibre nuggets into him which he has a small handful in the morning when I catch the other one.
He is out 24 hours at the moment too.
Vet was called, he had gone back to normal by the time she came and other than being tired trotted up sound, muscles nice and relaxed and no pain anywhere.
Took bloods all normal no muscle damage.
So light hacking and gently bring back into work and monitor could be a one off could be the start.
Look at feeding vit e oil.
That's where we are now.
Was just wondering advice form others.
He is very very difficult to feed as he just likes grass and hay or I can get Bailey's fibre nuggets into him which he has a small handful in the morning when I catch the other one.
He is out 24 hours at the moment too.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Might be, might not be. How old is he? One of mine had it from the start and the other 'grew into' being symptomatic a year later.
Selenium deficiencies can cause similar problems, do you have any idea of the selenium status of your grazing?
Selenium deficiencies can cause similar problems, do you have any idea of the selenium status of your grazing?
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
He is eight, British Appaloosa both parents n/n type one
Which is the best companies for grazing testing?
His grazing does have alot of clover. Has been on it for the last two years.
Which is the best companies for grazing testing?
His grazing does have alot of clover. Has been on it for the last two years.
FfionWinnie
Well-Known Member
As I've said before, my horse is not a severe case, I prefer to manage her in the optimum way because these horses can become much more symptomatic to the point of unmanageable, at any time. Secondly, as I've lost two horses to EGS, she will never graze here while she is in work. The two things combined are why I keep her how I do.
OP there are several subtypes so being n/n for type 1 unfortunately won't rule it or another muscle myopathy out. Equiseq have just developed a hair test for type 2 and have also found type 3 and some other variants.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I apologise. I have no recollection of reading that you have said your horse is not a severe case. I didn't realise that you kept her off grass only because of grass sickness. I won't repeat it.
The fact remains, though, that this is a spectrum disease, and yours is a more severe case than mine, because i recall you saying that she needs to be exercised every day, and when she had a lay off for a foot abscess (?) she was stiff when brought back into work. That wouldn't apply to either of mine now that they are on alcar, selenium and vitamin E.
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Booboos
Well-Known Member
The FB group on this is also worth joining (US and UK versions) as there is a lot of information on there.
Freddy is a moderate case in the scheme of things (severe cases can have trouble moving around, it's really an awful condition). He benefits from 24/7 turnout, grass for energy, as much riding as possible with a lot of warm up (20 minutes just in walk), vit E, selenium, ALCAR and magnesium. You will generally find that management and diet are a bit of a trial and error. Many horses with this condition can't tolerate grass, for example, while ALCAR makes some very spooky.
If you suspect he has this remove all sugar from his diet and start making changes one at a time. I'd add vit E and selenium to start, then magnesium, then ALCAR, then lysine, which covers the major supplements. You may want to try no grass as well and see what happens.
Freddy is a moderate case in the scheme of things (severe cases can have trouble moving around, it's really an awful condition). He benefits from 24/7 turnout, grass for energy, as much riding as possible with a lot of warm up (20 minutes just in walk), vit E, selenium, ALCAR and magnesium. You will generally find that management and diet are a bit of a trial and error. Many horses with this condition can't tolerate grass, for example, while ALCAR makes some very spooky.
If you suspect he has this remove all sugar from his diet and start making changes one at a time. I'd add vit E and selenium to start, then magnesium, then ALCAR, then lysine, which covers the major supplements. You may want to try no grass as well and see what happens.
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
The only sugar he is having in.his diet it grass with the small handful of fibre nuggets and I won't stable him till the winter and we have to come in at night as he will get stressy he only just tolerates winter routine.
Magnesium makes him spooky when I was able to get it into him. And again the only feed he will eat is Bailey's fibre nuggets.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I have a picky eater but he seems to find alcar quite nice and vitamin E powder no problem. I like alcar too, it's a bit like sherbet! If he won't eat chaff then you'd probably need to soak the nuts to mix it?
be positive
Well-Known Member
If he does have PSSM that may be why he gets stressy when stabled, getting the diet right and the condition under control should mean he is more comfortable in his muscles and therefore he may be better in the stable, it could be one of the symptoms.
The mare here is out 24/7 at the moment, exercised 9 days out of 10, gets vit e and alcar added to a small feed of soaked grass nuts and a handful of unmolassed chop, her symptoms were very subtle, she never tied up or looked stressed just a bit reluctant to work at times, her bum muscles were hard but only now they are really soft do I realise how hard they were, generally she just seemed "normal" with a few niggling issues that could be explained at the time.
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
Is it vit e powder or oil?
My vets do a vit e powder and I was wonder if that would be okay as I don't really want add oil to his diet as A) he won't eat it as he doesn't like oily stuff and B) he is a good doer so doesn't need the extra he maintains weight in winter with just grass and 16 kilos of hay and was in work fiver days a week mix of hacking and schooling.
What's the alcar? What does it do? Where do you get it from?
Also just to add is the naf vit e plus selenium okay or full of rubbish?
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ycbm
Overwhelmed
powder and oil will do both do the job, but not one with added selenium. You need to start on about 10,000 iu, and you can't give that much vitamin E without overloading selenium which is exceptionally toxic.
Natural or synthetic vitamin E do the same job, but to work the same you need DOUBLE the volume of synthetic. Check the label carefully. It makes natural no more expensive, and of course a smaller amount to add to his food.
Alcar is acetyl l carnetine, a breakdown product of an amino acid that I believe these horse can't make for themselves. Don't buy l carnetine, it's not as effective. Cheapest from myprotein.com, feed 10g a day, a bit more if he's a big horse.
For my horses, this is the difference between rock hard muscles and ridden tantrums, and completely normal horses. Good luck with yours.
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paddy555
Well-Known Member
I use equimins oil which at around £19 per month for 8000iu per day is the cheapest I think. (or at least the cheapest decent quality) The amount you feed is minimal (It covers about 1/4 a slice of bread) It is totally tasteless and it doesn't add weight. Vit E oil is very expensive and I cannot afford wastage (I have 6 on it) I feed it as a treat twice a day in a piece of bread. They love it and there is no wastage.
Mine is on:-
copra
alfalfa pellets
micro linseed
salt
magox
supplement
vit E
alcar
every single one of those is important and I couln't drop any of them
also important is keeping the horse warm, I use an exercise sheet to ride in for most of the year and decent rugging to avoid stiffness.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I feed salt and mag ox to everything, so I have no idea if mine would be affected by not having it. My cob barely gets a rug at all, but he's odd! He has locking stifles which should be worse off he's cold, but are actually better. Go figure 
I buy vitamin E powder from Progressive Earth on ebay, but mine are now down to a standard dose with no problems. I can't drop it altogether, they seize up, but the little scoop in the bag is enough, at least in the summer when it's higher in the grass. I may have to increase it in winter.
I buy vitamin E powder from Progressive Earth on ebay, but mine are now down to a standard dose with no problems. I can't drop it altogether, they seize up, but the little scoop in the bag is enough, at least in the summer when it's higher in the grass. I may have to increase it in winter.
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
Should I get my grazing analysed first?
Which is the best powder vit e to get?
Thank you. Sorry for the extra questions.
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
I feed salt and mag ox to everything, so I have no idea if mine would be affected by not having it. My cob barely gets a rug at all, but he's odd! He has locking stifles which should be worse off he's cold, but are actually better. Go figure
I buy vitamin E powder from Progressive Earth on ebay, but mine are now down to a standard dose with no problems. I can't drop it altogether, they seize up, but the little scoop in the bag is enough, at least in the summer when it's higher in the grass. I may have to increase it in winter.
Mine goes spooky with added magnesium so I don't think he needs that.
Thank you, phone didn't refresh before I saw the reply
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I have a spring water supply so I have the analysis for that and it's shockingly high in iron and manganese. I supplement to counter that and blood test to check, but they are still on the high side, just above normal.
I think forage analysis is not expensive and it could be very interesting. But if your horse needs more copper and zinc and he's a picky eater, you'll have a devil of a job getting them into him if my experience is anything to go by!
SEL
Well-Known Member
I've got 2 with it. One carries a single copy of the gene & the other has 2 copies. The second one is retired due to severe ringbone but never really had major symptoms. The other one showed symptoms within 8 weeks of being backed, was diagnosed in Feb this year and it's still work in progress with getting the diet right. Alcar had no effect on mine, but she's had to come off the grass because it's like riding through treacle when she's on it. She's on hay, kwik beet, copra and between 200ml - 400ml of oil a day depending on how much energy I want. Oil is her oats. Vitamin E from Forage Plus and MSM from Equimins added in. Table salt at about a large desert spoon a day.