PSSM type 1

[TheSpottyCobby]

So, my lovely little pony has just come back as positive for PSSM type 1 - n/P1
He tied up just before Christmas after he'd been in on box rest, which prompted my investigations as I wanted to know sooner rather than later.
I've already done as much reading on this as I can whilst I've been waiting for the results, so I think I'm on the right lines with:
Daily turnout and exercise (slow bringing back into work), with a long warm up/cool down
Low sugar and starch feed - looking to swap from Spillers Speedy mash to Speedibeet, plus Alfa A molasses free for when he's back in work. Soaked hay, vitamin e, magnesium, equimins advance complete. Grazing muzzle at the ready for when the grass comes through. Free access to salt lick and additional electrolytes when working hard.
Lots more rugging up to keep warm! New exercise sheets being ordered

I think I'm covering the basics, but does anyone else have any tips/tricks? I'm especially interested in thoughts about travelling/competing, as we like to get out and about showing, which involves quite a lot of standing around. We don't usually travel for more than an hour and a half, but any advice on competition season most welcome!

 

[Roxylola]

I can't help much knowledge wise as I think I am also newly in the same situation as you but haven't yet tested. However a while ago someone posted a link to Equestrizone who have some short dated vitamin E half price - I've just ordered 4kg so it's worth a look there

 

[paddy555]

I commented on your other thread (didn't see this one) but the above sounds pretty good. I would give salt in the feed each day. I don't think a salt lick alone is enough. I would also look at alcar, it would be relatively cheap to give it a try. I would also think about copra and micro linseed when considering the feed.

You last para is a problem and I have seen people having problems with this before.
For showing, except obviously in the ring, you can keep moving just wandering around slowly, don't leave tied up to the lorry more than necessary, rug thrown over his back whilst leading etc. Travelling for some is a problem. 90 mins standing in a partition could well be too much. Rugs obviously but that gives rise to the problem of sweating up whilst travelling. The only way I suppose would be to unload part way and lead to loosen him and then reload. That may not be very easy or safe.
I think that now you know what you are dealing with it will be a case of getting him back into decent work, using everything you have suggested and seeing where you are.
Presumably until the recent episode and leaving him boxed for a week he was OK on your regime and had never shown the slightest problem?

 

[TheSpottyCobby]

I commented on your other thread (didn't see this one) but the above sounds pretty good. I would give salt in the feed each day. I don't think a salt lick alone is enough. I would also look at alcar, it would be relatively cheap to give it a try. I would also think about copra and micro linseed when considering the feed.

You last para is a problem and I have seen people having problems with this before.
For showing, except obviously in the ring, you can keep moving just wandering around slowly, don't leave tied up to the lorry more than necessary, rug thrown over his back whilst leading etc. Travelling for some is a problem. 90 mins standing in a partition could well be too much. Rugs obviously but that gives rise to the problem of sweating up whilst travelling. The only way I suppose would be to unload part way and lead to loosen him and then reload. That may not be very easy or safe.
I think that now you know what you are dealing with it will be a case of getting him back into decent work, using everything you have suggested and seeing where you are.
Presumably until the recent episode and leaving him boxed for a week he was OK on your regime and had never shown the slightest problem?

It's the travelling that worries me. He's always traveled well, never sweats up unless it's boiling hot, keen to load, stands on the box and waits patiently. I bought him 3 years ago this month and that was a 5 hour journey from Staffordshire to Romford, you wouldn't have even known he was in there. But I'm going to be so paranoid now!

Up until now, he's never shown any sign of anything being slightly untoward. He has occasionally bucked in canter when I've given him a strong leg aid (or just before our gallop out showing as he was anticipating!) so I suppose I could count that as a mild sign. He has been on box rest on two previous occasions - once when he was kicked in the field and then we had the beast from the east to contend with, and one other time when he overreached and had cut into his heel bulb. Both times he came back into work with no issues. I think the only other thing which changed was he had been on a Blue Chip balancer, which I now know to be full of starch! He was still having this balancer whilst in, whereas before all he'd been having was the speedy mash and a handful of Alfa A

 

[SEL]

I've seen your thread on facebook too - its a tough call, but at least now you know

The reason many of these horses tie-up is due to what the specialist who helped with mine described as 'an energy crisis in the muscles'. They store glycogen (sugars) abnormally and can't access it when they need it during exercise. Slow steady work burns glycogen differently to fast work and uses different muscle fibres. This is why the horses often tie-up when they suddenly do something explosive, have a good gallop etc and many of these horses can walk for miles without issue (in fact they wonder whether it was purposely bred forward in draft horses 1500 odd years ago because it gave them an evolutionary advantage doing their slow plod work). Good link from Ker here:

https://ker.com/equinews/aerobic-anaerobic-exercise-horses/

Because your horse will struggle to use glycogen effectively for energy you will probably need to get them used to using fats for energy (some people have success with acetyl-l-carnitine and its cheap to try, especially if your horse is a good doer). So you will need to start adding a bit of oil into the feed. I use a mix of copra and veg oil. This explains it better than me

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/app/uplo...rses-common-but-under-diagnosed-condition.pdf

One of the other reasons for adding oil to feed is it slows down your horse's insulin response. That is a good thing for PSSM providing your horse is not also insulin resistant. My mare is very insulin sensitive - which is likely why she struggles with her muscles - so for her I need to make sure she has oil in her feed and a belly full of soaked hay before she goes near grass or anything that will cause an insulin spike.

Can't help with the travelling because I haven't managed to sort that out at all sadly.

Despite everything I've said above it really is trial and error. When both my horses came back positive I thought at least they'd have the same management - but one could stuff himself full of grass without issue and the other only has to sniff it for her muscle enzymes to go through the roof.

 

[ycbm]

I can't help much knowledge wise as I think I am also newly in the same situation as you but haven't yet tested. However a while ago someone posted a link to Equestrizone who have some short dated vitamin E half price - I've just ordered 4kg so it's worth a look there

Is it natural? You need to feed double if it's synthetic. Also it needs not to have selenium in it if you are feeding bigger quantities.

.

 

[Roxylola]

Yes, natural and no selenium. Thanks though, I'm a newbie to this and there is lot to take in

 

[TheSpottyCobby]

I've seen your thread on facebook too - its a tough call, but at least now you know

The reason many of these horses tie-up is due to what the specialist who helped with mine described as 'an energy crisis in the muscles'. They store glycogen (sugars) abnormally and can't access it when they need it during exercise. Slow steady work burns glycogen differently to fast work and uses different muscle fibres. This is why the horses often tie-up when they suddenly do something explosive, have a good gallop etc and many of these horses can walk for miles without issue (in fact they wonder whether it was purposely bred forward in draft horses 1500 odd years ago because it gave them an evolutionary advantage doing their slow plod work). Good link from Ker here:

https://ker.com/equinews/aerobic-anaerobic-exercise-horses/

Because your horse will struggle to use glycogen effectively for energy you will probably need to get them used to using fats for energy (some people have success with acetyl-l-carnitine and its cheap to try, especially if your horse is a good doer). So you will need to start adding a bit of oil into the feed. I use a mix of copra and veg oil. This explains it better than me

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/app/uplo...rses-common-but-under-diagnosed-condition.pdf

One of the other reasons for adding oil to feed is it slows down your horse's insulin response. That is a good thing for PSSM providing your horse is not also insulin resistant. My mare is very insulin sensitive - which is likely why she struggles with her muscles - so for her I need to make sure she has oil in her feed and a belly full of soaked hay before she goes near grass or anything that will cause an insulin spike.

Can't help with the travelling because I haven't managed to sort that out at all sadly.

Despite everything I've said above it really is trial and error. When both my horses came back positive I thought at least they'd have the same management - but one could stuff himself full of grass without issue and the other only has to sniff it for her muscle enzymes to go through the roof.

This is all really helpful reading, thank you. I just hope my trials don't lead to any more episodes of tying up whilst I'm trying to get it right. I think I should be on the right track with the feeds at least. It will just be supplements that I will need to play around with, and see how we go with the grass.

Wondering about broaching the subject with his breeder. She's a member of the facebook forum so will have seen my post.

 

[be positive]

This is all really helpful reading, thank you. I just hope my trials don't lead to any more episodes of tying up whilst I'm trying to get it right. I think I should be on the right track with the feeds at least. It will just be supplements that I will need to play around with, and see how we go with the grass.

Wondering about broaching the subject with his breeder. She's a member of the facebook forum so will have seen my post.

Breeders need to take responsibility to ensure this does not become even more of an issue but many will bury their heads in the sand and not admit to having it in their stock, this statement from the New Forest Pony Society makes interesting reading and shows they are taking it seriously but are still relying on mare owners to test and remove any that are positive from their breeding programme.

https://www.newforestpony.com/breeding/pssm/

 

[TheSpottyCobby]

Breeders need to take responsibility to ensure this does not become even more of an issue but many will bury their heads in the sand and not admit to having it in their stock, this statement from the New Forest Pony Society makes interesting reading and shows they are taking it seriously but are still relying on mare owners to test and remove any that are positive from their breeding programme.

https://www.newforestpony.com/breeding/pssm/

Definitely. I know she's got foals due this year as well from the same sire/dam combination. And I know someone who is selling my boy's half sister for breeding. Appaloosa traditionals aren't common and are desirable.
He's got some lovely cobs on his sire's side, including the first ever overall supreme winner of TOYS. I was always told that none of the herd have ever exhibited any medical problems, but if they live out grazing 24/7 I don't suppose anything really would show up.
Interestingly, my boy was pretty much the first from the sire and dam combination, and is the eldest/furthest along in his education, so it is possible his siblings will have problems which have not shown up yet, or are being put down to being green/baby moments

 

[SEL]

Definitely. I know she's got foals due this year as well from the same sire/dam combination. And I know someone who is selling my boy's half sister for breeding. Appaloosa traditionals aren't common and are desirable.
He's got some lovely cobs on his sire's side, including the first ever overall supreme winner of TOYS. I was always told that none of the herd have ever exhibited any medical problems, but if they live out grazing 24/7 I don't suppose anything really would show up.
Interestingly, my boy was pretty much the first from the sire and dam combination, and is the eldest/furthest along in his education, so it is possible his siblings will have problems which have not shown up yet, or are being put down to being green/baby moments

I put a lot of my mare's symptoms down to being an unbalanced baby when I first had her. I even turned her away for 4 weeks because I thought her brain needed a break - worst thing I could have done in hindsight. I'd never heard of PSSM and she wasn't showing any symptoms of tying up that I would recognise in the true 'tying up' sense.

She is LP/LP (snowcap) so would throw a pretty spotted foal in most circumstances. She also has a 50% chance of throwing one with PSSM (& that's leaving aside the arthritis that was diagnosed when she was very young) so she will stay with me because I could never guarantee that she wouldn't be bred from. She's got a full brother who is 2 years older but I don't know whether he has it.

 

[be positive]

I wonder if she is being sold for breeding because they had issues riding? it is a condition that vets are not that well up on, most know it exists but I suspect many never consider it unless the horse actually ties up as yours did, the average slightly grumpy/ lazy/ tricky animal is probably labelled as behavioural unless the owner is aware of PSSM.

I know I have had a few through my yard for schooling that probably had it and I worked them through the tricky stage to get them back on track probably the harder work was enough to help, one many years ago I took on and gave 12 months to try and get right, he did tie up very slightly totally randomly even when living out 24/7 on no food, he was previously labelled as naughty hence coming here, I gave up trying to ride him in the end and he retired to a local animal rescue who took him on, he was a pb quarter horse which is the breed where it was first recognised, I think, at the time it was not something I had heard of.

 

[TGM]

With regards to travelling and competing, we try and keep our boy out overnight if at all possible before a competition. When we arrive at the venue, we take him off the lorry and walk him around for a while. If we stay over at competitions, we get him out of the stable as much as possible with hand grazing and hacking.

 

[TheSpottyCobby]

I put a lot of my mare's symptoms down to being an unbalanced baby when I first had her. I even turned her away for 4 weeks because I thought her brain needed a break - worst thing I could have done in hindsight. I'd never heard of PSSM and she wasn't showing any symptoms of tying up that I would recognise in the true 'tying up' sense.

She is LP/LP (snowcap) so would throw a pretty spotted foal in most circumstances. She also has a 50% chance of throwing one with PSSM (& that's leaving aside the arthritis that was diagnosed when she was very young) so she will stay with me because I could never guarantee that she wouldn't be bred from. She's got a full brother who is 2 years older but I don't know whether he has it.

We never really had any problems with this, I backed him and rode away myself, he's a real old head on young shoulders and has taken absolutely everything in his stride. He loves his work.
I suppose this is the thing with breeding for a 'pretty' colour. Some people won't care that the horse will potentially have to endure soreness and pain throughout it's life. I've always said Gambit is with me for life no matter what, so at least he won't be going anywhere and is lucky in that sense.

 

[TheSpottyCobby]

I wonder if she is being sold for breeding because they had issues riding? it is a condition that vets are not that well up on, most know it exists but I suspect many never consider it unless the horse actually ties up as yours did, the average slightly grumpy/ lazy/ tricky animal is probably labelled as behavioural unless the owner is aware of PSSM.

As far as I know she is only just 3 and unbacked, so won't have exhibited anything so far. She may be one of the lucky ones.
He's got a full brother who's 5 and has just started his ridden career. A few others are just starting out. Gambit is the eldest so it will be a waiting game for the others, or they may be luckier!

To be honest I could probably identify at least 10 other potentials on my yard alone (last count there were 95 horses, liveries and riding school equines) which have exhibited a lot more of the symptoms of PSSM than Gambit does. But, none of them have ever tied up.

 

[TheSpottyCobby]

With regards to travelling and competing, we try and keep our boy out overnight if at all possible before a competition. When we arrive at the venue, we take him off the lorry and walk him around for a while. If we stay over at competitions, we get him out of the stable as much as possible with hand grazing and hacking.

Unfortunately out overnight isn't an option for us. None of the yards locally offer overnight grazing, bar one which I would not keep my horse at if you paid me! It's tough being in London.
Good to know that you cope with stay away shows though. I was aiming for TOYS and Sunshine Tour before all of this happened!

 

[TGM]

Unfortunately out overnight isn't an option for us. None of the yards locally offer overnight grazing, bar one which I would not keep my horse at if you paid me! It's tough being in London.
Good to know that you cope with stay away shows though. I was aiming for TOYS and Sunshine Tour before all of this happened!

If you can't turn out overnight, then perhaps another option is to pop him on the horse walker, or exercise him in some other way before embarking on a long journey.

 

[TheSpottyCobby]

If you can't turn out overnight, then perhaps another option is to pop him on the horse walker, or exercise him in some other way before embarking on a long journey.

We've got a horsewalker which I can use whilst mucking out, he's always been OK before, but this was before the confirmed diagnosis turned me into a paranoid mother!