pts or keep trying

[curio]

I posted on here a while ago about my cob having liver disease and a chronic itch, In the last 5yrs this has never been resolved he will bite and rub himself raw and his hips havnt had hair on for 5yrs.
hes been skin scraped allergy tested etc, and no treatments suggested as such
each year hes been cushings tested his highest result was 28.9 and insulin tests come back low
hes now got arthiritis in front legs and without his daily bute is lame with bute hes slightly unlevel
over the past year he hasnt done much work as each time he starts to get a bit fitter his legs ache or he goes lethargic starts to trip and wobble about hes also fell a few times.
i turned him away he went more lame and got very mild lami resolved within days off the grass
he can be grazed for about 15 mins any longer he starts to wee red,
he has fat pads above his eyes, on shoulders and is very quick to gain weight he also drinks and wees loads, but still comes back a no for cushings

so ive recently been hand grazing him and yesterday he had 45 mins then his feet were trimmed, within 3 hrs he was lying down had pulses in all 4 legs and hot hooves, but by 10 pm on well soaked hay his hind pulses had gone but fronts still there .
by tonight cant find any pulses feet feel normal but hes still sore on his legs and on two bute a day,
ive done feed trials, organic feeds, minerals from forage plus etc nothing has changed his constant need to bite and rub himself raw
the vets are at a loss and now suggest just keeping him comfortable on bute as without hes lame.
but hes so lethargic the sparkle has gone from his eyes, his 21yrs old and cant cope being ridden much and now cant graze much, my partner says leave him alone he will be ok, other family are saying pts, and half of me agrees. but its such a hard choice as ive owned him since he was weaned so in your opinion would you keep going with more bloods etc which never seem to tell us anything or call it a day and pts

 

[Illusion100]

If he was mine, I'd PTS given the clinical history, lack of diagnosis and effective treatment plan, his age and mostly the fact the sparkle is gone from his eyes.

It's so tough but in your shoes I'd feel I was making the right decision for my faithful friend.

 

[curio]

thank you illusion100 that is what i keep thinking but keep feeling like im letting him down and giving up and there must be something else i can do, but i really dont think there is anymore

 

[Illusion100]

thank you illusion100 that is what i keep thinking but keep feeling like im letting him down and giving up and there must be something else i can do, but i really dont think there is anymore

Death comes to us all, hopefully before the suffering becomes unbearable. Sometimes there is nothing else that can be done but give the dignity of a humane death. By doing so you aren't letting him down but providing him with the kindest act you possibly could.

 

[vmac66]

I would pts. You have done so much for him this is the last kindest thing you can do for him x

 

[be positive]

I would probably call it a day, his quality of life is not great if he cannot be turned out to live a relatively normal retirement, the strain on you has to be considered as well it is a constant worry with a horse like this and it sounds as if you have done all you can and are still not able to look forward to him improving in any way.

The only thing that I would consider at this stage is putting him on Prascend, he may not test positive but I think the condition is still a bit of a mystery, many horses test positive with no real symptoms, some have seriously high results with minor symptoms, others like yours can be symptomatic with low test results so to my mind the vet should be treating the symptoms, which in this case are fairly clear, and ignoring the tests at this stage, you don't have to try it but it would be worth giving him a couple of months on it if you are really not ready to call it a day, whatever you do never think you have given up on him or let him down in any way.

 

[CMcC]

Agree with the others, PTS is the kindest thing you can do. At this time of year I believe older horses and those in poor health know the winter is coming and you can tell they don't have the strength or the will to get through it. It is such a hard decision for you to make but sounds like you have supportive people you can talk it through with.

 

[Goldenstar]

I would PTS as well there's little quality of life for him or you in the scenario you describe .

 

[MurphysMinder]

I am sorry you are facing this. If he were mine I would pts, I have a pony with several health issues, she is managed and seems happy currently but as soon as she starts losing her sparkle and showing signs of discomfort we will be saying goodbye.

 

[windand rain]

I too would PTS sadly the bute wont help his liver condition and without it he is in pain. The decision has already been made. I always go for quality over quantity I wish the same was true for people too

 

[Shay]

I'm so sorry OP. If he were mine I hope I would have the courage to PTS. That is not to say in any way that you lack courage but only to recognise the incredible personal sacrifice that this is. It is easy for us to say PTS when it isn't our beloved horse. It does sound as though the kind and dignified release Illusion100 speaks of is the best option. But I do not underestimate how hard that decision is. Hugs either way.

 

[Antw23uk]

OP I'm sorry but I would PTS. I would have done it a while ago so I do think within the next few days would be best for both of you. Dont put it off any longer.

 

[Equi]

A horse with liver disease on two Bute a day is not going to work.

I'm sorry but I think you know what to do already...

 

[Annagain]

It's a horrible decision but I too would let him go. He has little quality of life if he has to spend 23 1/2 hours a day in his stable on 2 bute a day. It's just pants when the best thing for him is the worst thing for you.

 

[MissGee]

By doing so you aren't letting him down but providing him with the kindest act you possibly could.

This :-(

 

[tim_]

This :-(

Yep. I haven't horses but have had my wifes dog and our bird PTS. Their quality of life had dropped and keeping them alive would have been unkind. You're not unable/unwilling to pay for treatment so it isn't that you're not trying to do the best for him, it's just that his time is up.

 

[Damnation]

I would PTS, you've done everything, tried everything and it isn't improving his quality of life.

He's been very lucky to have been in the same home for his entire life and has obviously had no expense spared, there are worse things for a horse than death.

*Huge hugs*

 

[Cecile]

Liver disease is just awful and the symptoms can be obscure, having had one with chronic liver disease I feel for you so much
The symptoms can include:
Weight loss, Lethargy/depression, Ascites and or peripheral oedema, Haemorrhagic diathesis, Icterus, diarrhoea or soft faeces, photosensitisation, Hepatic encephalopathy, failure of anabolic function
Commonly associated are hepatic failure, including laminitis, colic and generalised or focal itchiness of the skin

Hepatic encephalopathy can be awful and can come on rapidly, which can include extreme behavioural problems, depression, repeated yawning, head pressing, uncontrollable circling, compulsive walking/pacing, convulsions/fits and coma

So having seen quite a few of the above problems with chronic liver disease I would have no hesitation putting to sleep and would do it sooner rather than later

As said above by a poster, bute and liver disease will resolve nothing

Take care of yourself during this difficult time, it can be soul destroying to watch

 

[ester]

I wouldn't hesitate to PTS this chap. sorry OP. Whatever your partner says if you leave him alone he clearly won't be OK, any bute will be messing up his liver even more, and he can't have normal turnout which in turns is not going to help his struggling joints.

 

[sport horse]

I am very sorry - it is horrible decision to have to make but you really have done your very best. Remember the saying 'better a day too soon than a day too late'. All you can do is to end his suffering (and your own). Good luck.

 

[AFB]

If I couldn't keep him happy in a field I would pts

 

[Suby2]

My pony tested negative with the usual Cushings blood test but as she was showing obvious symptoms she then had the TRH test which showed she was positive. Has this been tried?

 

[crabbymare]

Lethargic and sparkle gone, with a quality of life that will by the sounds of it decline would be the line that has been crossed for me. I would book him in and let him go before he declines further, but be kind to yourself as it seems that you have done as much as is possible to sort out the problems that have now got to the point where he is not happy.

 

[0310Star]

I had to make this decision in June, and my horse wasn't to the extent of yours. She had joint problems and I decided a while ago that once she needed more than 1 Bute a day then I would do it as I didn't want her to suffer.
It is a horrible decision to make but I just kept in mind 'better a day too early than a day too late'.

The only advise I would give is once the decision is made, call the vet to come the same/following day. I had about 5 days to wait and that was unbearable! I cried for 5 days straight knowing what was coming, and it was a relief once it was done. I knew it was the right thing but I still to this day have to remind myself that it was the right decision.

I hope whatever you decide it goes ok x

 

[Wagtail]

At the end of the day, a horse should be able to be a horse, and it doesn't sound as though he can be. I had to make that heartbreaking decision for my mare when she was only 19. I had hoped to have her into her thirties. You have my heart felt sympathy.

 

[Notimetoride]

Oh bless him. The sparkle has gone from his eyes. He's tired and had enough. I was always told that they tell you when they have had enough. I never understood this, until my mare told me. I knew exactly what I had to do that day.
A couple of years ago I then had my gelding pts. He never really deteriorated like my mare did, and never told me he was tired, but I spent 8 years trying to keep him sound and everything possible had been done. On the day the vet was coming to do it, he was trotted up and trotted up sound, but the decision was made. I needed my life back - this horse, who I loved dearly, was draining me emotionally, financially, and actually ruining my life. Thats different to your situation though. The final act of kindness is releasing your gelding from his pain. Give him a big hug from me x

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I know it's easier for us to say as we're not emotionally invested but I too would PTS if he were mine. I think you have to think about his current quality of life, which sounds relatively poor all things considered.

 

[curio]

I would probably call it a day, his quality of life is not great if he cannot be turned out to live a relatively normal retirement, the strain on you has to be considered as well it is a constant worry with a horse like this and it sounds as if you have done all you can and are still not able to look forward to him improving in any way.

The only thing that I would consider at this stage is putting him on Prascend, he may not test positive but I think the condition is still a bit of a mystery, many horses test positive with no real symptoms, some have seriously high results with minor symptoms, others like yours can be symptomatic with low test results so to my mind the vet should be treating the symptoms, which in this case are fairly clear, and ignoring the tests at this stage, you don't have to try it but it would be worth giving him a couple of months on it if you are really not ready to call it a day, whatever you do never think you have given up on him or let him down in any way.

hi thankyou i have begged the vet to try him on prascend but he refuses just keeps saying unjtil he tests positive then he cant have prascend, as it will do more harm than good if he doesnt need it

 

[curio]

Liver disease is just awful and the symptoms can be obscure, having had one with chronic liver disease I feel for you so much
The symptoms can include:
Weight loss, Lethargy/depression, Ascites and or peripheral oedema, Haemorrhagic diathesis, Icterus, diarrhoea or soft faeces, photosensitisation, Hepatic encephalopathy, failure of anabolic function
Commonly associated are hepatic failure, including laminitis, colic and generalised or focal itchiness of the skin

Hepatic encephalopathy can be awful and can come on rapidly, which can include extreme behavioural problems, depression, repeated yawning, head pressing, uncontrollable circling, compulsive walking/pacing, convulsions/fits and coma

So having seen quite a few of the above problems with chronic liver disease I would have no hesitation putting to sleep and would do it sooner rather than later

As said above by a poster, bute and liver disease will resolve nothing

Take care of yourself during this difficult time, it can be soul destroying to watch

thankyou reading that makes his problem hit home a bit more
hes lost a lot of weight always been porky but now fairly lean but not underweight, new years eve 20015 I dropped him offf at the vet expecting him not to come home ggt was over 1000 he had odema that bad he was wearing a cowl of it round his neck making it difficult to turn his neck,it was hanging off his belly and chest, he then took the skin off his forelegs back flanks and hips with his teeth till he was raw,
he is constantly itchy a slight stroke with a flat hand sends him into rocking ectasy
he yaws a lot feaces are normal but he was on steroids for a year which gave stomach ulcers and didnt do much for the itch, he has bad seperation anxiety, and recently his eyes seem to go blank and he will just walk into the wall as if it isnt there,

occasionally his sparkle is in his eyes but its getting rare and he still has a reasonable appetite
also if exercised ridden or in hand he will often feel drunk and has fell a few times last year then was dazed about it this was checked by the vet who did flexion tests trot ups said hes lame in front, lunged him for over an hour in trot to try to make him fall, then made me ride for another hour, he was blowing and sweating as hadnt done much work for months due to his problems,
vet said he could find nothing apart from raised liver and to get him fitter

 

[curio]

My pony tested negative with the usual Cushings blood test but as she was showing obvious symptoms she then had the TRH test which showed she was positive. Has this been tried?

vet wont do it its unreliable and acth is enough