Public footpath over our land & letter from the council

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GoodLineNotSquare

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We've had an irritating letter from our local council, and I was wondering if anyone here has experience or pointers for how to deal with it.

We have a public footpath running along the hedge in one of our paddocks, for about 50 metres, going straight from a kissing gate into a neighbour's field to a stile into an arable field. The path isn't that busy, as it kind of runs out on a main road in the middle of nowhere. Every now and then a dedicated rambler or two comes down it.

The letter we've now received says that aggressive behaviour from a horse in our paddock a month ago (!) resulted in an injury to a walker, says that the council can take action to abate a public nuisance, and asks that we give serious consideration to taking steps to avoid a repetition.

The problem from my point of view is that the letter is completely unspecific - the previous paragraph is the entire useful content of the letter. I've asked for more details of the incident, which presumably the council must have. I know everyone says their horses are perfect but aggressive behaviour would be out of character for any of ours, who on the whole prefer to stand around and blink at visitors. Our guess is either that the horses wandered over for a treat, potentially quite intimidating if you don't know horses, or the walker had an unrestrained dog. Absent a reply, we've got no idea though. The letter could cover anything from one of the horses galloping up field with murder in their heart (unlikely) or the walker wandering over and annoying the horses (willing to believe that, animals being much nicer than people on the whole).

I've asked for guidance from the council as to what their unspecified steps might be. I'm loath to waste 100 sq.m. of perfectly good paddock to fence off the path completely. I am considering getting signs made up to say don't feed the horses, keep your damn dog on a lead and here's an alternative route if you want to avoid the horses. Is there anything else people have done/had to do?

Ironically, I'm a keen walker myself and appreciate the work people do to keep paths open and usable. It's just galling to be on the other end of it, and I quite understand why larger landowners get unsympathetic...
 
Be careful with signs as they can be misconstrued as an admission of liability. Best bet is to fence it off with well signposted electric fencing and let them graze it while you are about
 
Ask the council for proof that an injury occurred....as they are making concrete accusations presumably they have medical reports/photos?
 
When you think of the trouble that some animals cause path users, this rather takes the biscuit. It is, as you say, completely vague. Definitely ask for more details - day, time, description, what exactly happened. As you say, a horse may wander over just to say hello. Anyone walking in the countryside ought to be able to distinguish between a friendly overture to something that turns its bottom and threatens to kick (I did have one like that and fenced the path off with electric fencing, but they were only going to be there for a short time. And with electric, that is another issues.

I can understand why you are annoyed.
 
I would be asking for specifics - it is quite possible the individual in question brought it on themselves by feeding treats. There is no law which says you cannot keep horses on a public ROW. How many years has it been used with no problem? Sometimes the council officers are coerced into action which may not really be appropriate - I had one making waves about my muck heap, courtesy of a very unpleasant neighbour. He swore he had been on the neighbours side and thought it smelled bad, what I forgot to point out was nothing fresh had been added to it for three months, but neighbour was a bully of the worst kind. Moved on now thank goodness. (I swapped the site of the muck heap for a highly visible stack of green wrapped haylage!)
 
I would reply to the council saying that it is impossible to implement steps to avoid a repetition without having full details of the alleged incident in the first place - ie which horse, what the aggressive behaviour was, whether a walker's dog was involved etc., what the walker's injury was etc. Puts the ball firmly back in the council's court.
 
TGM said:
I would reply to the council saying that it is impossible to implement steps to avoid a repetition without having full details of the alleged incident in the first place - ie which horse, what the aggressive behaviour was, whether a walker's dog was involved etc., what the walker's injury was etc. Puts the ball firmly back in the council's court.
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Great response.....

Fiona
 
It's a nuisance but tbh I'd fence off. We don't use the field closest to the house as there's a ROW through it and I just don't trust people. Horses can be nosy and people can be stupid. If someone makes a second complaint it'll be a complete hassle.
 
The letter isn't that vague though....it states that an injury has taken place. It is an accusation. I would have a lawyer reply to this.
 
I would simply write a letter back asking for more specific details as you cant possibly act on such vague information. Is it at all possible to put a CCTV camera up viewing the field? If it is, Id definately do this as it would also cover you as if something did ever happen (like they'd annoyed your horses) you'd have evidence. Id always be worried if the public could get so close to my horses personally, you never know what they could feed them.

I dont understand rights of way in England (we have a right to roam up here so dont think they exist really up here), so you own the land but people have a right to walk along a part of it? Are the council allowed to demand you fenced it? Surely then you'd lose a chunk of your land which isnt fair...
 
Are you a BHS Gold member? If not, I'd join asap and then use them for initial legal advice before doing anything else! Agree you need specifics but engaging in any dialogue could be an issue later on if you aren't properly advised.
 
TGM said:
I would reply to the council saying that it is impossible to implement steps to avoid a repetition without having full details of the alleged incident in the first place - ie which horse, what the aggressive behaviour was, whether a walker's dog was involved etc., what the walker's injury was etc. Puts the ball firmly back in the council's court.
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Good idea .
If you do decide to fence do it in electric and do it both sides so the walkers are hemmed in doesn't matter that a bit field is marooned .
 
Magic Melon - rights of way in England are technically highways and in theory the land underneath the path and the surface of the path is the responsibility of the Highways Department at the Council, not the landowner.

However, there are miles and miles of footpaths and some seldom used, others are used as the daily dog walk for villagers and all landowners have the responsibility of keeping users of the land safe.
 
TGM said:
I would reply to the council saying that it is impossible to implement steps to avoid a repetition without having full details of the alleged incident in the first place - ie which horse, what the aggressive behaviour was, whether a walker's dog was involved etc., what the walker's injury was etc. Puts the ball firmly back in the council's court.
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Definatley this, plus add that you require all the above, so that you can forwards onto your legal representative.
 
TGM said:
I would reply to the council saying that it is impossible to implement steps to avoid a repetition without having full details of the alleged incident in the first place - ie which horse, what the aggressive behaviour was, whether a walker's dog was involved etc., what the walker's injury was etc. Puts the ball firmly back in the council's court.
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This ^^^
 
Cecile said:
As you have no idea what or if your horses actually done anything apart from receiving a vague letter, I'd be tempted to put this up until things are clarified or Heras fencing which you can hire in

Sounds as if your horses have been found guilty before you even know what happened

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...otpath-land-building-giant-metal-barrier.html
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A teensy bit OTT maybe? I understand that landowners get annoyed with the 1% of eejits out there but to scar the landscape seems a bit mean
 
There was a whole heap more behind that story locally I think.

But it also wouldn't be something to do until things are clarified, pretty permanent and pricey.
 
ester said:
There was a whole heap more behind that story locally I think.

But it also wouldn't be something to do until things are clarified, pretty permanent and pricey.
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Ha ha - that's my hay supplier. He was justifiably fed up with dog walkers trampling all over his hay crop and letting their dogs c**p everywhere. After many friendly signs and requests he did what he is entitled to do...protect his crop and livlihood by ensuring walkers keep to the footpath.
 
If your horses respect electric fencing and the path runs along the side of a field I would probably just run a single strand of electric alongside the path and close it off during the day and open it up at night
 
maggiestar said:
A teensy bit OTT maybe? I understand that landowners get annoyed with the 1% of eejits out there but to scar the landscape seems a bit mean
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Not really if this footpath runs over the OP's land she will have insurance for injury and now some public servant from the council has written injury has occurred she can't just ignore it.
If the OP has her horses insured there is a possibility that when insurance was taken out she signed to say there are no vicious tendencies and each year she is asked if there are any changes and happily signs the renewal, again this could cause an issue as she has been informed that a horse has caused injury

I would protect my horses and my ar$e until I was fully aware of what everyone was going on about. The letter writer has clearly taken the walkers side, so someone is playing judge and jury, I would erect a fence until I had all my answers

Who knows maybe the horse was a bit of a pain that day or the walker could of screamed, run and fell over when the horse was 100 metre's away but once that letter was sent it changes the game plan

I was horse sitting for a friend once who had a FP some middle aged woman arrived and started jumping on the neighbour's fencing and pulling and tugging at the stock proof fencing, I didn't have a clue who she was, a few weeks later my friend told me the neighbour had received a letter from the council telling her neighbour that her fence was unsafe and needed to be repaired, apparently this middle aged woman was well known for causing damage in and around the area and then reporting it to the council

The landscape can wait until the OP sorts out the problem :)
 
One of the reasons I have rejected properties with foot paths running through the land - that and people interfering with my animals. You could apply to divert it along the edge of your field and then (electric) fence it off if that makes it easier - you will need warning signs on the electric fence though.
 
Electric fences close to a public right of way are asking for trouble as in someone getting an electric shock and then making a claim.
As stated earlier I would fully fence off the public right of way with post and rail fencing with Equi-fencing attached to it and that way you have done everything that you could be expected to do. (Just ensure you fully maintain it). That way no one can make a complaint.
 
But you would erect a fence that cost £8k for 300 feet Cecile?!

How do you claim for an electric shock, how does it cause injury unless you have a pacemaker? How are you liable if you use the appropriate recommended signage.
 
PeterNatt said:
Electric fences close to a public right of way are asking for trouble as in someone getting an electric shock and then making a claim.
As stated earlier I would fully fence off the public right of way with post and rail fencing with Equi-fencing attached to it and that way you have done everything that you could be expected to do. (Just ensure you fully maintain it). That way no one can make a complaint.
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As long as you put regular signs up sayng 'electric fence' you are covered.
 
GoodLineNotSquare said:
We've had an irritating letter from our local council, and I was wondering if anyone here has experience or pointers for how to deal with it.

We have a public footpath running along the hedge in one of our paddocks, for about 50 metres, going straight from a kissing gate into a neighbour's field to a stile into an arable field. The path isn't that busy, as it kind of runs out on a main road in the middle of nowhere. Every now and then a dedicated rambler or two comes down it.

The letter we've now received says that aggressive behaviour from a horse in our paddock a month ago (!) resulted in an injury to a walker, says that the council can take action to abate a public nuisance, and asks that we give serious consideration to taking steps to avoid a repetition.

The problem from my point of view is that the letter is completely unspecific - the previous paragraph is the entire useful content of the letter. I've asked for more details of the incident, which presumably the council must have. I know everyone says their horses are perfect but aggressive behaviour would be out of character for any of ours, who on the whole prefer to stand around and blink at visitors. Our guess is either that the horses wandered over for a treat, potentially quite intimidating if you don't know horses, or the walker had an unrestrained dog. Absent a reply, we've got no idea though. The letter could cover anything from one of the horses galloping up field with murder in their heart (unlikely) or the walker wandering over and annoying the horses (willing to believe that, animals being much nicer than people on the whole).

I've asked for guidance from the council as to what their unspecified steps might be. I'm loath to waste 100 sq.m. of perfectly good paddock to fence off the path completely. I am considering getting signs made up to say don't feed the horses, keep your damn dog on a lead and here's an alternative route if you want to avoid the horses. Is there anything else people have done/had to do?

Ironically, I'm a keen walker myself and appreciate the work people do to keep paths open and usable. It's just galling to be on the other end of it, and I quite understand why larger landowners get unsympathetic...
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Can you run some electric fencing alone, thus isolate the path. Also put signs warning the fence is electrified
 
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