Pulling shoes, farrier nightmares and seedy toe!

Klo

Member
Joined
23 February 2021
Messages
21
Visit site
I am sure everyone has probably been in a similar situation, but it's the first time I have been in this situation!

So I have a 7 year old 16.3 Polish warmblood mare. I have owned her for a year now. We mainly do flatwork and hacking but am looking to start jumping in the summer. When I first got her she was fully shod all round, little bit of seedy toe in the front feet but was being managed well. Good as gold to shoe, stood still, didn't bat an eyelid at anything. Now she is not perfect she is very sensitive, if you upset she will tell you. Very clearly. She doesn't trust new people and takes a while to warm to you. She is also a fighter over a flighter!

About 7 months in I moved house and had to change farrier due to distance. She then became a nightmare to shoe. The new farrier could take the shoes of, trim her feet, do the burning stage to put the shoes back on and the second he began to nail the shoes on she would buck, rear, kick out and completely melt down. After three shoeings of progressively worse behaviour I spoke to my old farrier who arranged for one of his associates to help me, however he travels a rather large distance to me! Shoeing was never a problem before. She is not lame, no heat, no swelling, just took a dislike to this farrier. We believe possibly the farrier upon the house move has nicked her with a nail and made her very sensitive and reactive to the farrier!

He has shod the fronts but she wouldn't let him do the rears. The seedy toe is on the fronts so I am not fussed about the rear shoes being off.

However the little darling keeps pulling the fron left shoe of! The first time she was playing and pulled it of on the fence. I didn't see her do the second or third time. But she doesn't seem to keep the shoe on for more than two weeks.

What do I do? She wears overreach boots in the field and when ridden and the boots rarely come off, just the shoe! Do I take the front shoes off and have her trimmed more often to keep intop of the seedy toe? Do I continuing having shoes put back on every two weeks? Do I scream?! Do I ground her? ? Do I take the shoes of for the winter and put them back on in the summer when the ground is harder?

If anyone has been in a silmar situation and has any suggestions or tips and tricks please let me know! Feet progress pictures attached aswell for reference. They get Kevin Bacon on them daily and she is on naf pro feet powder also.

Thank you!
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20220314-190222_Gallery.jpg
    Screenshot_20220314-190222_Gallery.jpg
    994.6 KB · Views: 105
  • Screenshot_20220314-190555_Gallery.jpg
    Screenshot_20220314-190555_Gallery.jpg
    1,020.9 KB · Views: 101
Last edited:

PurBee

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 November 2019
Messages
5,799
Visit site
There’s probably a difference between old farrier and new, if she’s now losing shoes with this farrier but didnt before.

I can tell from the pic that this new farrier (if pic is most recent) rasps the entire outer hoof wall, which is now generally considered detrimental due to the natural outer hoof wall developing a barrier/waxy layer of protection (in a healthy hoof), and by rasping all the length of the outer hoof wall (normally done to even it out to look visually pleasing), removes this protective layer. It mainly stops too much water absorbing and softening the entire hoof wall thickness, making the wall weak.

A bit like if you sand-papered the top surface of your fingernails, the top natural ‘glossy’ layer would be removed, and water would seep into the nail easier, making them softer. Softer = easier to crack/split/chunks break off.
Same with a hoof, and shoes can be pulled off easier.

Did your old farrier rasp the entire outer hoof wall?

Tbh, im undecided about hoof dressings.…but it is curious how theres a fair few posts of weakened hoof walls in those that use hoof dressing, so its surely more than coincidence.

I personally would ask farrier not to rasp the outer walls, except flares right close to the bottom of the foot…1 cm max. …and experiement with not using the hoof dressing for 6 weeks. See how the next shoeing round goes.

Some farriers, via training habit rasp the outer hoof wall, but thats normally done to just a third of the length, your farrier has done the entire wall….we dont usually see that often.
 

PinkvSantaboots

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 August 2010
Messages
24,043
Location
Hertfordshire
Visit site
The toes look too long and the heals are probably too high I personally would change farriers.

A lot of horses don't like the burning on of the shoes and often the banging on, one of mine started to play up so I had his feet xrayed and his soles were incredibly thin so I took the shoes off and we used hoof boots.

He stayed barefoot for about 2 years and he now has fronts on as our hacking is very stony, the break from shoes did his feet the world of good and I recently x rayed his feet again and the sole thickness has improved.

You can actually put shoes on without burning them on.

Good feet come with good diet painting stuff on them basically does nothing and sometimes can make them worse because they can stop moisture getting into the hoof and they get brittle, I would stop using it and if the feet become a bit dry just put the hose on them you will probably only have to do this in the summer.
 

PurBee

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 November 2019
Messages
5,799
Visit site
The second pic you just posted, the outer wall looks un-rasped - except for some at the quarters - is the second pic your old farrier?
 

Klo

Member
Joined
23 February 2021
Messages
21
Visit site
The first picture is the seedy tie at it's worst. The second picture without the giant hole is more recent.

I really appreciate everyone's advice. But unless you're a qualified farrier how to shoe a horse was not the advice was seeking. I am very happy with my current farriers work, he is very well trained and superb at his job. Maybe I wasn't clear in the advice I was seeking.

The advice I was after is any tips and tricks to try and stop her pulling her shoes of. I should of mentioned it's in the field. And if anyone has any experience with taking shoes of a horse with seedy toe and their experiences with it.
 

HashRouge

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 February 2009
Messages
9,254
Location
Manchester
Visit site
I'd probably take the shoes off for a bit and try to get on top of the seedy toe. My elderly Arab, who is unshod, occasionally has bouts of seedy toe. Maybe twice in the last six years? The farrier packs the hole with I think copper sulphate and then some kind of putty, which sets. Usually by the time he next trims her the seedy toe has grown down enough that it can pretty much be cut out.
 

asmp

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 March 2010
Messages
4,527
Visit site
Mine has suffered from seedy toe for years, sometimes bad, sometimes not so. He now doesn’t have shoes on due to having bad side bones - one of the symptoms being that he didn’t like the banging of the shoes going on any longer. He now wears hoof boots. And now you’ve mentioned it I’ve realised that his seedy toe is no longer visible (I.e. the farrier isn’t cutting chunks out) so perhaps it has gone away.
 

ycbm

Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
58,797
Visit site
My experience of seedy toe is that taking the shoes off and cutting it back to let the air in is the only sure fire way to get rid of it.

The horse taking the shoes off is also cured by this, of course :)
 

PinkvSantaboots

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 August 2010
Messages
24,043
Location
Hertfordshire
Visit site
The first picture is the seedy tie at it's worst. The second picture without the giant hole is more recent.

I really appreciate everyone's advice. But unless you're a qualified farrier how to shoe a horse was not the advice was seeking. I am very happy with my current farriers work, he is very well trained and superb at his job. Maybe I wasn't clear in the advice I was seeking.

The advice I was after is any tips and tricks to try and stop her pulling her shoes of. I should of mentioned it's in the field. And if anyone has any experience with taking shoes of a horse with seedy toe and their experiences with it.

Thing is if the feet are too long and unbalanced it will make it easier for the shoes to be pulled off, correct that and the shoe pulling will probably stop.

Seedy toe can be controlled with regular trimming to cut the affected area away and treating with a solution of Milton or something antibacterial to keep it away.
 

ihatework

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 September 2004
Messages
22,414
Visit site
I would be getting some foot balance X-rays, examining her diet and treating the seedy toe and hoof sole fairly aggressively.

I’d probably pop jumping on hold for a few months and just get those feet sorted, it will pay off in the long run.

She is one that might benefit from a short break from shoes - hack out in some boots for a bit. Shouldn’t need to be long term.
 

Klo

Member
Joined
23 February 2021
Messages
21
Visit site
Have you previously used hoof boots? If there any particular brand you would recommend?


I would be getting some foot balance X-rays, examining her diet and treating the seedy toe and hoof sole fairly aggressively.

I’d probably pop jumping on hold for a few months and just get those feet sorted, it will pay off in the long run.

She is one that might benefit from a short break from shoes - hack out in some boots for a bit. Shouldn’t need to be long term.
 

Hepsibah

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 January 2016
Messages
779
Visit site
I've used hoof boots and have learned that different makes suit different horses. I really wanted scoot boots but they didn't fit my two so I ended up with a set of Boa boots and a set of Marquis boots. Hoof Boutique is a good place to start looking.
 

sbloom

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 September 2011
Messages
11,126
Location
Suffolk
www.stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk
Have you previously used hoof boots? If there any particular brand you would recommend?

Fit is important, I believe the Hoof Boot Boutique can help with measurements and trials. Seedy toe doesn't come out of nowhere - diet and trim, and being able to get to it to treat it, which shoes limits severely, is crucial. This is why comments have been made on how the feet look.
 

paddy555

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 December 2010
Messages
13,678
Visit site
I really appreciate everyone's advice. But unless you're a qualified farrier how to shoe a horse was not the advice was seeking. I am very happy with my current farriers work, he is very well trained and superb at his job. Maybe I wasn't clear in the advice I was seeking.

The advice I was after is any tips and tricks to try and stop her pulling her shoes of. I should of mentioned it's in the field. And if anyone has any experience with taking shoes of a horse with seedy toe and their experiences with it.

difficult to agree with the first para based on your pics.

For taking the shoes off rather than the normal farrier way of pulling them off I would take one nail out at a time. This takes longer and is more work but it is easier on the horse. I had a horse that was in that position because the farrier had caused a perfect horse so many behaviour problems. The only way I could get the shoes off (me, not the farrier) was putting the foot forward on the stand and rasping then drawing one nail at a time with a rest in between. It took a long time to get 4 shoes off that way but the horse regained a lot of confidence,
 
Top