Pup becoming more and more nervous.. pls hlp!!

[Jericho]

We have a lovely JRT bitch who is 5 months old now. She is a clever and bright little dog, picked up toilet training and a whole host of tricks and obedience like recall and stays really well. However she is incredibly sensitive and very submissive, rolling on to back, exposing tummy etc, wont go near her feed until we walk away (has always been like this since we had her at 7 weeks old. We have from the outset been very firm with her and set very clear boundaries but I feel we might have overstepped the mark with her and made her too submissive and nervous. There has been occassions when for example she has chewed shoes (when she knows not to and has her own toys to play with and chew and she went out of her way to get hold of said shoe) when she has been smacked or been told off verbally or when she has bitten the children albeit playfully or wee'd inside when the door is open and no reason not to go outside. Also she reacts very badly to be shouted out even if I am trying to get her attention or to distract her from danger or doing something bad e.g. chasing chickens, running in the road. her response understandably has to be either cower or leg it and hide! I would if someone shouted at me after all!

She knows what is wrong and if you catch her doing it e.g. digging up the plants she only has to look at you and she is gone. Likewise if she doesnt want to come in, she hides and cowers. In all honesty I think I have confused myself about being firm and strict. She is loving, loves cuddles, is always pleased to see us unless she has done something wrong eg. chewed something - she just seems to be overly nervous for minor things.

Also (sorry the story continues..) she is becomign more and more nervous of strangers, both coming into the house and out on walks, where she will run around in circles and often barks at them adn just refuses to approach, even people she knows. When she was younger, she met many many people and always loved the attention. Now she wont go near them. Again I feel I am partly at fault. I am very keen that she doesnt jump up at people particularly children as we have lots of little people visiting (I hate that habit in other peoples dogs) so I am saying down to her a lot or trying to stop her and I also make her wait and 'leave' when we see people and other dogs out as she kept rushing up to them and jumping up etc. I think I have made her react in a negative way. We do walk with other dogs and although bigger dogs do tend to rough house her a bit she seems ok. She shows no aggression at all to humans or dogs.

Please please help me to turn this round - my beautiful friendly pup now seems to not like people at all!!

 

[Dobiegirl]

Quite a lot of things here, I believe 7wks is too young to take away from mum, but what is done is done.

She is obviously a sensitive little soul and I would not shout at her at all or smack her that is going to make her more nervous and I think you know that. Things like shoes are fair game and if you leave them lying around she will chew them. If she wees inside just pick her up and take outside, if you catch her in the act just say ahah and put outside. The same with the nipping, she is teething either ahah or train her to leave it, we trained our pup who was mouthing and we distracted her and clicked and treated at the same time say leave it. Our pup caught on very quick and stopped it.

When you take her outside put a long training line on her and when she dosnt come just pull her in , when she does come give lots of praise and treats. She dosnt know when she has done wrong she is reading your body language and legging it.
With strangers coming to the house just get them to ignore her and after a while try to entice her with a tasty treat. Finally I would not allow large dogs to rough house her because they could potentially hurt her even if its not intentional.

Dont worry your puppy is still very young and its not too difficult to turn this around.

One last thing you have to post photos of your pup because its the law on AAD.

 

[SusieT]

She knows raised voices and people with 'big' postures mean trouble and getting smacked so she is using avoidance to avoid the situation. Yes you wuite possibly have been too strict-no one can advise really ***** forum, I would get a behaviorist in personally before it descends further and she potentially gets nippy. Not saying she definitely will, but obviously you are unhappy with the current situation.

 

[CAYLA]

I agree with Susie T, you have described a fair few issues there and I certainly think you need a behaviourist out to give some one on one advice and see the dogs behaviour/body language and how you react with her.
I think a puppy training class would not go a miss either.
You say smacking her for biting the kids? I take it you meant mouthing/playing?
She sounds like a submissive type of dog that has possibly been handled a little to firmly which has knocked her confidence some as you suggest yourself.
As DG suggests clicker/toy/positive distraction/encouragement training routine could definately help with getting her to come out of herself without being overly vocal or trying to handle her to much at the moment in order to get/encourage her to do things and get a little confidence in doing so.

It also reads like you have misinterpruted alot her "behaviour" ! re the shoes and knowing she has treats and the shoes are yours? why would you have thought that? to her they are all fun/chewable items, the only way she would learn not to chew the things you don't want her to is to put them from her reach, she cannot distinguish. and getting wrong for biting the kids "albeit play" you say? this is exactly what it was and she should have been given guidance/alternative not punishment. She would also most certainly not know "she has wronged" she just picks up on your body language and she has done a very good job so far.
She sounds mixed up/confused and as a result had become withdrawn and you also sound mixed/confused up in regard to "dog behaviour"
You have seriously misconstrued her ablity to know "to go out when the door is open or not go into the road" thats is for you to teach her in a patient manor and giving her guidance (not choices) that you would expect her to know like door being open!
Where and how is she fed, will she eat when you leave her?
How are you reacting to her being submissive/rolling on her back e.t.c?

She is still young and you can still learn and help her with the correct guidance/training.
Please seek out a good puppy class and most of all (let her be a puppy) and see some behavioural advice.

 

[Jericho]

Thank you for your replies. I understand what you are saying exactly. Please dont get me wrong - we are not hitting this puppy repeatedly, she has had a couple of smacks and she spends most of her time with her tail wagging. She 'seems' a happy dog, she eats well, she loves going for walks, loves going in the car, loves cuddles, loves the children and gets involved in their games, spends a lot of her time playing games with us, doesnt get upset (although she is clearly sad) when we leave her at home, she has her crate to sleep in/ retreat to which is never closed or used as punishment. She has a varied life from coming on boats, to visiting other peoples homes and dogs, to lots of free walking (we have our own fields etc). Her response has been a bit of an eye opener for us as dog owners because she picks up things so quickly and has been an absolutely joy to own without hardly of the many issues that I hear other pup owners have. I just hate to see her so scared of strangers.

I am not telling her off for things that she can not understand like running out of the door although I would bring her back in and practise the wait command for example. She might get told off if I think she knows she shouldnt be doing something i.e. she has learnt the correct behaviour and . The wee inside for example she asks to go out now and will hold overnight ever since she was about 10 weeks and the shoe issue, well, that was my fault - the first few times she got told no firmly and a toy exchanged. With the biting, we expected the puppy mouthing biting issue and always have followed advice, the only time she was smacked was when she bit my 8 year old daughters leg when she was running and had four puncture marks in her leg. At what point do you become firmers and we clearly state that that behaviour is totally unacceptable ?

My pact today and going forward is no raised voices at all and I am going to take her out for walks where there are people today so she can meet lots of people. Thanks again for the advice and the 'home truths'. I think I knew them but I needed some one to say them to me. Will keep you posted and will post some pics.

 

[SusieT]

There is no need for smacking at all. You may think she understands but it is up to to remind her of behaviours-smacking will not do that in a dog that is becoming scared. She does not understand that you reserve smacking for behaviours where you can for example see puncutre marks as opposed to ones where you do not see a mark. GEt a behaviourist out to explain everything and see how the family and dog interact.

 

[PolarSkye]

First of all, good for you for looking for a solution.

A few thoughts:

- Stop smacking and/or shouting AT her . . . even if you've only smacked her a couple of times, it's clear from your post that she is now reading your body language and is fearful . . . and never smack a pup for toileting inside, just (as others have said) distract her if you catch her in the act and take her outside (pick her up if you have to) and then praise her lavishly when she "produces" outside

- Set her up to succeed . . . don't leave valuable family items lying around for her to chew - and if she does get hold of something when your back is turned I'm afraid you have to chalk it up to experience . . . if you catch her chewing something calmly say "leave," take the object from her and replace it with something she CAN chew. Similarly with toilet training - give her multiple opportunities to go out during the day (assuming you're there) - preferably right after she has eaten or woken from a nap and before she begins playing . . . also pay close attention to any subtle cues she may be giving you that she wants to go out - we moved to a new house in May of this year and had to pretty much retrain our two-year-old collie/jrt cross b/c her old cue (sitting by the back door) didn't work b/c the back door is so far away from the main living area - for a while we had to be super-vigilant about any potential signs/cues and, yes, we did have mess in the house.

- If she messes in the house, make sure you clean the area thoroughly and buy one of those specialist pet deodorizers (or something equivalent) - if she can smell urine or faeces she will continue to go in that spot - and her nose is much more sensitive than yours.

- If she's barking/anxious with strangers coming to the house, ask them to ignore her for the first minute or two and then (when she's calm) give her a biscuit or a treat as they say hello. Whatever you do, don't pick her up or reassure her when she's excited or nervous - you will just be confirming her feelings and rewarding the behaviour.

- You really need to discourage her/train her out of chasing and nipping . . . it's cute when they're tiny pups but before you know it she'll chasing and biting joggers/other people outside the home - or maybe even chasing cars (a game she will lose) . . . similarly rough-housing with toys - she needs to learn that it is unacceptable to EVER put her teeth on anything other than a toy. Perhaps get the kids to teach her recall in the garden so that she is running TO them rather than with them . . . also if they're playing "tug" with a toy and she mouths the children (even accidentally) that the game stops - instantly. When both of ours were little, if their teeth ever touched us while playing we yelped and then stopped the game. The yelp distracted them and they pretty quickly got the message that teeth on people equals end of fun. I agree with whoever recommended you put a long-line on her while you teach her to come in from the garden (or to you from anywhere really) - as long as you encourage and reward rather than just dragging her in. Do try, though, not to use the long-line as a retarding tool - i.e., don't have her lunging/hanging off the end of it trying to chase the kids.

We have two jrt crosses - both crossed with some sort of collie - and one of them (Fred) is also very sensitive to loud noises and raised voices (always has been). He also had a couple of traumatic experiences when he was at the "fear imprint" age, which have affected him. The list of things Fred used to be really frightened of was ridiculous . . . carrier bags, wrapping paper, boxes, vaccuum cleaner, lawnmower, fishing rods and nets, bicycles, the office printer, fireworks, raised voices and anything new or unusual in the home. It took me ages to convince my two daughters NOT to reassure him when he was frightened but now that list is shortened to just fireworks (and horses). As distressing and counterintuitive as it was (he would slink, shake and cry), we just had to let him sort out his fears for himself . . . let him find coping mechanisms and work out for himself that the things he was frightened of actually posed no danger . . . no cuddles or even reassuring words while he was frightened and certainly no making him face his fear - just calmness and then a "good boy" when he was calm. To this day, he hides behind the tv (where it's nice and loud) if things get too much - particularly in fireworks' season.

Good luck with your pup - and, yes, pictures are mandatory .

P

P.S. Daisy (our other jrt cross) is now 2 and just the other day chewed my eldest daughter's brand new shoe . . . but as Em had left it where Dinks could get at it (and we didn't find it until the next morning) there was no point punishing her . . .

 

[Spudlet]

I think you need to find a good trainer who uses positive reward-based methods. You don't sound like you mean to, but your behaviour is quite bullying towards her, you may mean to be 'firm' but you are going to far with this, for this dog, by the sounds of it. Do NOT smack her. At best you will scare her - at worst she will defend herself and it will be your fault, but she would be the one being pts for biting.

Remember dogs do not know right from wrong - you need to teach her what is acceptable by praising the desired behaviours and ignoring the undesirable ones, but she is never going to know right from wrong because those are human concepts, not canine ones.

I would suggest you read 'The Culture Clash' by Jean Donaldson and please, please find a trainer or behaviourist who can give you some guidance.

 

[Alec Swan]

I am not telling her off for things that she can not understand .......

Sadly, I think that you may be, and it sounds to me that she may be receiving an array of mixed messages. Presumably she's receiving some from you, some from your children and then others from visitors. If she doesn't understand right from wrong, and I don't think that she does, then perhaps too much is being asked of her. I also suspect that you're expecting too much from a puppy of such a young age.

All so often, the brightest puppies can be the most difficult, in that they will put their own interpretations, upon our meanings.

My remarks are a bystanders observations, not criticisms!! Good luck.

Alec.