Puppy farm massively expanded: disgraceful
- Thread starter Cinnamontoast
- Start date
Spudlet
Well-Known Member
Jesus, Mary and Joseph, what an utter disgrace.
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
Jesus, Mary and Joseph, what an utter disgrace.
Must point out they got the wrong person quoted, but I was gobsmacked to read that bit especially.
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
Bloody hell, really hoped the petitions and protests would make the council think twice!
s4sugar
Well-Known Member
Planning is not licensing.
It may have got planning but now is the time to ensure all licensing requirements are met.
This cannot happen with only one & a half staff and the council who issue the lincense needs remining of this.
It may have got planning but now is the time to ensure all licensing requirements are met.
This cannot happen with only one & a half staff and the council who issue the lincense needs remining of this.
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
So am I right in thinking this is a planning application only and they will still need a licence for these premises.
s4sugar
Well-Known Member
They still need a license and the criteria are undergoing changes at the moment.
There is no way the requirements can be met with the buildings and staff numbers.
(Assuming the council inspectors are not blind or looking the other way)
I got my boarding inspection last week. Lets just say the inspector comes with an agenda every year and animal care is not her forte.
Past doozies include wanting to block eaves ventilation on a kennel block, wanting a hydraulic safety certificate on a grooming table (as used for engine hoists when a grooming table rises for the same reason an office chair does)
This year I commented that under proposed regulations my cat chalets with wire topped runs would have to be changed which would be a shame because the mesh was better for the cats than a solid roof even if it wasn't as good for the workers when raining.
I did not expect a comment that without the wire the cats would get out!
There is no way the requirements can be met with the buildings and staff numbers.
(Assuming the council inspectors are not blind or looking the other way)
I got my boarding inspection last week. Lets just say the inspector comes with an agenda every year and animal care is not her forte.
Past doozies include wanting to block eaves ventilation on a kennel block, wanting a hydraulic safety certificate on a grooming table (as used for engine hoists when a grooming table rises for the same reason an office chair does)
This year I commented that under proposed regulations my cat chalets with wire topped runs would have to be changed which would be a shame because the mesh was better for the cats than a solid roof even if it wasn't as good for the workers when raining.
I did not expect a comment that without the wire the cats would get out!
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
So it is as I thought planning only which to be fair as there were no objections by neighbours they had to pass.
Does anyone know how many dogs they have at present? and if the new microchipping law comes in it might stop them in their tracks. Meanwhile I assume they will be applying for a licence and thats when we need to press home our objections.
Does anyone know how many dogs they have at present? and if the new microchipping law comes in it might stop them in their tracks. Meanwhile I assume they will be applying for a licence and thats when we need to press home our objections.
SusieT
Well-Known Member
why is puppy farming worse than pigs? Or large stud farms? Majority of them are poorly run, scam merchants I agree, but without seeing more detials about how he conducts his business it is impossible to condemn him. Like cows/horses overproduction is an issue.
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
According to that report he has "one and a half" staff looking after 196 dogs, that in itself is enough for me to condemn him if it is true.
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
Impossible to condemn him? Are you serious?! Dogs are household pets and their 'overproduction' leads to health problems and heartbreak for the owners, plus it's very unnatural for pups to grow up in a factory setting and this then leads to issues when the pup goes to it's new home. The bloke is jot doing this for the betterment of the breed/s. I'd equally be going crazy about 'farming' of horses and I prefer my meat free range.
I think you're upping your post count again.
Squeak
Well-Known Member
This will be the largest puppy facility in Wales now[/QUOTE said:
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
Just read all the letters and it appears he already has his licence, there is a good letter from puppyalert which says it far better than I could.
Kaylum
Well-Known Member
Having had the displeasure of seeing what's being bred here and the state of the breeding stock, all I can say is educate the people that buy from these places. If the mother has watering infected eyes there is a problem with things. if she is skinny and unhappy. If your paying £450 for a cross bred you want quality and they are breeding any old rubbish. fuel the trade and he will keep breeding. the mother should be alert and happy and you should be able to see how she walks and moves. Not laid on her side miserable and unhappy. You never get to see the fathers god knows what condition they are in.
Ranyhyn
Well-Known Member
SusieT - yet again NO-ONE has said it's worse?! This is the DOG area of the forum, here we are almost indefinitely going to be talking about dogs.... Just because no-ones mentioned pigs (in the dog area) doesn't mean we don't care about that too.
As with every line of animal production, as this is what this is, care should be taken to give these animals the best life possible. From grass roots breeding, right up to point of sale and making sure they go to their new homes healthy, vaccinated and well prepared for.
As is usual its supply and demand, while the same people who are appalled at the stories of these dogs, go out and buy a "cheap" "convenient" "the breeder didn't cross-examine me like XXXX did when I called" dogs, there will be a demand.
Stop buying them and they will stop breeding them.
Just because no-ones mentioned pigs (in the dog area) doesn't mean we don't care about that too.As with every line of animal production, as this is what this is, care should be taken to give these animals the best life possible. From grass roots breeding, right up to point of sale and making sure they go to their new homes healthy, vaccinated and well prepared for.
As is usual its supply and demand, while the same people who are appalled at the stories of these dogs, go out and buy a "cheap" "convenient" "the breeder didn't cross-examine me like XXXX did when I called" dogs, there will be a demand.
Stop buying them and they will stop breeding them.
SusieT
Well-Known Member
'Impossible to condemn him? Are you serious?! Dogs are household pets and their 'overproduction' leads to health problems and heartbreak for the owners, plus it's very unnatural for pups to grow up in a factory setting and this then leads to issues when the pup goes to it's new home. The bloke is jot doing this for the betterment of the breed/s. I'd equally be going crazy about 'farming' of horses and I prefer my meat free range.
I think you're upping your post count again.
It's not natural for farm animals to grow up in a factory setting either.. Plenty of 'responsible' breeders whelp bitches in kennels and bring pups up in kennels, and are as responsible as some of these puppy farms. Pigs are thought to be more intelligent than dogs and as trainable-but its acceptable to raise them in worse conditions because they aren't as cute..
I actually wouldn't have a problem with a suitably run farm, I will say its unlikely any of them are suitably run but maybe if instead of goign for knee jerk reactions we could go for minimum standards, such as must have outside run/vet visit on scheduled times(ever 2 weekly), etc. maybe we could move towards these places being properly regulated. There is currently no standards towards making a kenneled dogs(not just puppy farms!) life bearable and that is what we should be working towards imo than just 'ban the mean evil man for making the cutie wootie puppies grow up in a shed'.
Like private owners you won't be able to force health testing on them.
I think you're upping your post count again.
It's not natural for farm animals to grow up in a factory setting either.. Plenty of 'responsible' breeders whelp bitches in kennels and bring pups up in kennels, and are as responsible as some of these puppy farms. Pigs are thought to be more intelligent than dogs and as trainable-but its acceptable to raise them in worse conditions because they aren't as cute..
I actually wouldn't have a problem with a suitably run farm, I will say its unlikely any of them are suitably run but maybe if instead of goign for knee jerk reactions we could go for minimum standards, such as must have outside run/vet visit on scheduled times(ever 2 weekly), etc. maybe we could move towards these places being properly regulated. There is currently no standards towards making a kenneled dogs(not just puppy farms!) life bearable and that is what we should be working towards imo than just 'ban the mean evil man for making the cutie wootie puppies grow up in a shed'.
Like private owners you won't be able to force health testing on them.
galaxy
Well-Known Member
are you kidding????!!!!!!!!!
Have you ever met someone who has a dog that has come from one of these places and seen the heartbreak they go through when the dog becomes seriously ill? I have and it's horrendous.
It is not necessarily overproduction that is the problem, but the conditions and lifestyle the animals live in and the quality of their dogs they breed from.
The pig farms I have seen in my area keep their pigs outside in large fields.... How is that comparable to puppy farms whose dogs never come out of their kennels? Never go for walks and show behaviour natural to a dog.
I have been wanting to say for ages SusieT, but why to you go around the forum posting inflammatory comments to wind people up?!
Ranyhyn
Well-Known Member
In fairness to SusieT she's talking about factory farming, which isn't the farming you're seeing. They are brought up in dreadful conditions. But maybe SusieT should start a thread about that if her morals run so deep?
puppyalert
Well-Known Member
What has to be remembered with this application (there have been others since from dog breeders/farmers) that as well as large numbers of dogs they also have a farm to tend to with hundreds of sheep and as in this case just the farmer a wife that works and one other person employed. An impossible task to care for all the sheep and dogs one or other eventually must suffer.
The fault lies both with the Council and the applicant who in 1994 did have planning permision but for only 9 dogs and not the 197 he has today. He should have advised planning during the period from 1994 to 2011 that he had increased the number of dogs on his premises. He has always had a licence but or a lesser number of dogs than of today, each time the Council inspected once a year they just adjusted the numbers on his licence not once did they question the increase of numbers.
The shed, in fact two large agriculture shed, of which neither had planning permission for change of use. One was increased in size for, the applicant said, sheep and anxillary farming equipment but within a few months he had tiled it, fitted automatic feeders and filled it with dogs. Personally, I doubt his intention for the barn was for keeping sheep which meant that this application in the first place for 'agricuture use' was not the truth.
No one not even neighbours realized the premises had so many dogs, because the dogs were silent most of the time - I will leave you to judge why. There are no direct individual puppy purchasers visiting the premises as all puppies reared are sold to dealers and pet shops.
Since this retrospective planning application there have been another passed for a premises with 100 dogs. These premises had operated for a few years unlicensed, was then granted a licence but did not apply for planning permission and when they did (there many objections raised against this application) just the same as the one above. The Council (Carmarthenshire) failed to prosecute for unlicensed dog breeding and did not place an enforcment notice (for not applying for planning permission)on the premises and carry it through instead they they gave retrospective permission. This is so typical of Welsh Councils they see no wrong in allowing these large commercial establishments to operate, breed indescriminately and sell all litters of puppies to dealers. The poor breeding bitches and stud dogs mostly do not see the light of day are confined indoors, a lifetime of mental torture for many and deprivation for others.
For anyone on this board living in Wales near any dog breeding premises selling puppies to dealers and pet shops please pass on information to me. Thank you
The fault lies both with the Council and the applicant who in 1994 did have planning permision but for only 9 dogs and not the 197 he has today. He should have advised planning during the period from 1994 to 2011 that he had increased the number of dogs on his premises. He has always had a licence but or a lesser number of dogs than of today, each time the Council inspected once a year they just adjusted the numbers on his licence not once did they question the increase of numbers.
The shed, in fact two large agriculture shed, of which neither had planning permission for change of use. One was increased in size for, the applicant said, sheep and anxillary farming equipment but within a few months he had tiled it, fitted automatic feeders and filled it with dogs. Personally, I doubt his intention for the barn was for keeping sheep which meant that this application in the first place for 'agricuture use' was not the truth.
No one not even neighbours realized the premises had so many dogs, because the dogs were silent most of the time - I will leave you to judge why. There are no direct individual puppy purchasers visiting the premises as all puppies reared are sold to dealers and pet shops.
Since this retrospective planning application there have been another passed for a premises with 100 dogs. These premises had operated for a few years unlicensed, was then granted a licence but did not apply for planning permission and when they did (there many objections raised against this application) just the same as the one above. The Council (Carmarthenshire) failed to prosecute for unlicensed dog breeding and did not place an enforcment notice (for not applying for planning permission)on the premises and carry it through instead they they gave retrospective permission. This is so typical of Welsh Councils they see no wrong in allowing these large commercial establishments to operate, breed indescriminately and sell all litters of puppies to dealers. The poor breeding bitches and stud dogs mostly do not see the light of day are confined indoors, a lifetime of mental torture for many and deprivation for others.
For anyone on this board living in Wales near any dog breeding premises selling puppies to dealers and pet shops please pass on information to me. Thank you