Puppy ownership...six days in...

[ldlp111]

Well it has been very tiring so far, but worth it.
She has learnt 'sit' pretty well
Would like to teach her her name better, I was saying her name and waiting for her to look at me then she got a treat (a piece of her kibble). Is this the best way of doing it?

She is now sleeping better at night, as I've only been letting her have short 10-20min naps after 5.30pm ish. Last night she slept til 5am whimpered abit but went quiet again until after 6.30am.
She'll be 9 weeks on tues, I have newspaper/pads down for overnight as she does do some business overnight. During the day I take her out after waking and eating, i've been caught out a couple of times, so watch her like a hawk if she hasn't wee'd in awhile. Everytime she goes outside I say 'go weewees' when she's toileting and then she gets praised (do you praise after they've finsihed?)
Should I take paper away overnight now? I thought best to leave paper (easy to clean up) so she hopefully does her business on it overnight and then once she's sleeping through remove it, so she might get the idea of no paper equals no toileting etc.

Well that's it just thought i'd post a quick update on first time puppy ownership

 

[Wheels]

I would be getting up at least once during the night to take her out to the loo until she is able to hold on all night. I don't think having no paper there will stop her going TBH - if she needs to go she will go regardless

during the day I would be taking her out about once an hour even if she doesn't need to go

Are you crating her at all?

 

[C1airey]

Ours is now 6mths. Still has the occasional accident if I take my eye off the ball, but we have paper/puppy pads down in strategic places for her just in case. She goes out at about 11pm and again at 5am. At 9wks, I was getting up to let her out at between 2 and 3am as well. If you take the paper away, she'll still go, but will probably get upset at not being able to find a suitable place.

Just use her name every time you speak to her, e.g. 'puppy, weewees', 'puppy, dinnertime', they pick it up very quickly.

 

[AmyMay]

At 9 weeks old I absolutely would not be restricting her sleep. I would also get up in the night to toilet her.

 

[splashgirl45]

i thought you mentioned this in your last thread and the general consensus was not to deprive a puppy of sleep, you decided to do the opposite. it is not fair to expect a young pup to go all the way through the night. its like having a baby, you have to go without sleep yourself in the beginning and it will be worth it in the end. she was probably telling you at 5am that she needed to go and you ignored her...so she will learn to poo and pee indoors overnight .....

 

[Cinnamontoast]

At 9 weeks old I absolutely would not be restricting her sleep. I would also get up in the night to toilet her.

This ^^ and what Splasgirl said. How would you like being ignored if you needed a wee? Would you ignore a baby crying? She's too little to go all night without toileting. I know a couple of posters said their pups went all night, but I'd say that was unusual. It's pointless asking for advice from people who've had lots of experience to then do the opposite.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

She is now sleeping better at night, as I've only been letting her have short 10-20min naps after 5.30pm ish. Last night she slept til 5am whimpered abit but went quiet again until after 6.30am.
She'll be 9 weeks on tues, I have newspaper/pads down for overnight as she does do some business overnight. During the day

At that age, she needs to sleep when she wants to sleep-its when they grow and process everything they've done and seen. She needs rest for her immune system to develop. Keeping her up will not mean she'll go through the night-her bladder is smaller than a thimble and when its full, its full. Her bladder will not be fully developed until she's over a year old and while many pups might be fully house trained long before then, its unreasonable to not expect the odd accident. Pre-empt her needing to go, praise her when she does go and if she asks to go then lots of praise-if she asks and noone takes any notice, she'll have to go regardless and house training will take longer.

My pup is 14 weeks and a larger breed. He's let out at 11pm and I am up at 5.00am. At the weekend I was 20 mins late and he woofed to go out and I was really pleased with him! He's consistently asking to go out when he's awake but I still watch him when he's playing etc or gets excited. He's let out straight away after a nap. He generally has a good sleep before we all go to bed before his final trip outside.In the mornings, he goes out, has his breakfast, goes out again to help me with the poultry, has a brief play and then back to sleep.

.

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

She is now sleeping better at night, as I've only been letting her have short 10-20min naps after 5.30pm ish. ……..

At that age, she needs to sleep when she wants to sleep-its when they grow and process everything they've done and seen. She needs rest for her immune system to develop. Keeping her up will not mean she'll go through the night-her bladder is smaller than a thimble and when its full, its full. Her bladder will not be fully developed until she's over a year old and while many pups might be fully house trained long before then, its unreasonable to not expect the odd accident. ……..

.

ldlp111, in your previous posts you've asked if curtailing the puppy's sleeping regime is a good idea. Just about every response has been that it's wrong. It seems that you've ignored the well intentioned advice from those with experience, and considering MoC's well expressed and correct views, you continue to fly in the face of advice, even though you clearly haven't a clue what you're doing.

I'm really sorry to be blunt, but do you suppose that the day will ever arrive when you actually act upon the correct advice which you've been given?

Alec.

 

[Clodagh]

Tired puppies are like tired children, untractable, unteachable and unpleasant.

 

[Starzaan]

See now, I'm afraid this makes me cross.

Why on EARTH would you try to keep a puppy awake just so you can get some extra sleep? Puppies NEED sleep in order to grow and develop properly. And her bladder is only tiny. She was probably asking for a wee when she woke you, and you ignored her.

Even now when my dogs wake me up in the night I get straight up to check and let them out. Invariably it's because they need to a wee or have a slightly upset stomach and can't hold on all night. I would never just ignore them.

What makes me more cross is people who ask for advice and then ignore it. It's akin to getting a horse vetted, the vet failing it and saying that absolutely no way should it be purchased, and then deciding to buy it, event it, and then get upset when it breaks.

Absolutely ludicrous.

 

[galaxy]

By putting paper down inside and allowing her to toilet inside you are only lengthening the toilet training process by letting her think it's ok to toilet inside the house.

Don't restrict her sleep, I assume you are not crate training (which is advised to aid toilet training and keep her safe from chewing), listen out for her in the night and if you hear her go down, put her outside for toilet, then go back to bed. If she now doesn't tell you, set your alarm for half way through the night and let her out.

Both my boys needed to go out once until they were 10 weeks old when they slept through.

 

[Peter7917]

Poor pup, I'm shocked anyone would think it's okay to restrict a babies sleep

As for leaving a puppy whimpering at 5am. The poor buggar is probably busting for the toilet and is trying to let you know in the only way she knows how I pray she is not locked in a crate being forced to toilet.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I was up at 2 am this morning with one of my dogs. He was whining and sure enough needed a wee, my fault as he'd been fed later than usual and had then had a big drink at bed time, he is 5 years old! He was let out in the early hours if needed when we were house training which is why he always asks now .
Please OP heed all the advice given and you will soon have a well trained pup, your current approach is just wrong .

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Hopefully OP has the puppy guide now-or Gwen Bailey's book. Its a steep learning curve the first one so I hope OP feels she can come back and update us at some point. I am finding the 5am starts a bit of a drain but hey ho, there's been some cracking sunrises and I am getting into work nice and early!

 

[Sarah_K]

Hopefully OP has the puppy guide now-or Gwen Bailey's book. Its a steep learning curve the first one so I hope OP feels she can come back and update us at some point. I am finding the 5am starts a bit of a drain but hey ho, there's been some cracking sunrises and I am getting into work nice and early!

At least it's the summer now so not too bad. I did the bulk of up in the middle of the night for toilet duties late December/early January. Thermal pyjama's were a godsend

 

[PucciNPoni]

Have never heard of anyone restricting sleep in order to get their pups to sleep all night. Its as bad as someone with holding water (only putting it down now and again so they can control the time the dog gets to wee).

It would be very good if all new pet owners would read and understand the AWA and the Five Freedoms. It is something that animal professionals must adhere to, and I don't believe that pet owners should (or are?) exempt from it either.

-the need for a suitable environment
•the need for a suitable diet
•the need to be able to exhibit normal behaviour patterns
•the need to be housed with, or apart from, other animals
•the need to be protected from pain, suffering, injury and disease

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

-the need for a suitable environment
•the need for a suitable diet
•the need to be able to exhibit normal behaviour patterns
•the need to be housed with, or apart from, other animals
•the need to be protected from pain, suffering, injury and disease

Presumably the instructions above are for those who didn't have the benefit of dogs within the family environment and as children, and who may just as well acquire a monkey or a snake as first time owners.

The line which I've highlighted above; perhaps it could have added that there will be those breeds or types which will be likely to 'exhibit normal behaviour patterns which would be peculiar their own chosen breed and or type'. Work-bred collies, for instance may very well display the herding instincts of their former heritage, greyhounds which are bred for one purpose only, but all so often are never given their freedom, the breeds which are bred specifically for fighting with other dogs or are bred and kept for their guarding duties, would be highly unlikely to benefit from the instructions above, because they take on dogs that the pro-trainers don't want and wonder why they fail to make a success of them and wonder why their dogs are behaving as they are.

Why the ill-or-uninformed want those breeds of dogs which have a propensity to be downright dangerous, I'll never know. I understand that there are those on here who are fans of Akitas, and I'll openly admit that I've had little to do with them, but of the 4 that I've known, by the time that the dogs matured, they ended up living in compounds or securely fenced gardens with warning notices around the properties, and they've never been out in a public place once they've become unmanageable. Apart from the status value, I wonder what pleasure these dogs actually bring to there owners.

There will be, there always are, those who rear up and tell me that their specific breed with a known tendency towards aggression and sometimes in an extreme form and tell me how their dogs are saintly. It would be very rare for those who have the unmanageable dogs to have the courage to stand up and admit that they simply can't cope. The sad fact is that they were never going to cope with them.

As much as I'm one for a freedom of choice in all things, and the horse has already left the stable I agree, but with hindsight, it would have been better if the more extreme breeds of dog which have been imported over the last 10-20 had been barred from entry to this country.

Alec.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

At least it's the summer now so not too bad. I did the bulk of up in the middle of the night for toilet duties late December/early January. Thermal pyjama's were a godsend

hats off to you, I would not want to be house training that time of year ! we live on a very bleak hill.

 

[PucciNPoni]

Alec, the AWA and 5 freedoms is something that applies to us all. Now, I wasn't trying to teach granny to suck eggs - but it's something that I think is overlooked for our own agendas. I have been shocked, in the past, when meeting experienced dog owners say that they withheld water for the purpose of controlling when the dog is to urinate. A dog's need to drink water is a part of normal physiological function, and it's also IMO cruel to try to change it's behaviours by with holding it - which to me is denying four out of five of the freedoms!

I agree with you that to deny breeds their specific character traits to the EXTREMES that we sometimes do is part of that. Ok, terriers are terriers. Many groomers I know don't get along with/like grooming westies. I love them. I love their feisty behaviour but I think there is a knack in handling them - let them be themselves and treat them firmly but fairly and you don't go wrong. Does it mean that I allow them to be wee radges on the table? Absolutely not. But it does mean that the last thing I want to do is quash that spark that they have, within themselves.

On another thread about vizlas being good dogs for the potential new owner - Someone had mentioned GWHP. I commented I really liked the ones that I know, but appreciated that they probably would not be good in my own hands/environment recognising that I neither have the time, the physical stamina or the means in which to exercise that type of dog which, done correctly makes them awesome. I can imagine that they, like any other breed, in the wrong hands could be criminally insane. (tongue firmly in cheek)

Too many people go out and buy a dog which really doesn't suit their honest lifestyle, their capabilities in training, their commitment to care/coat/dog's needs. Too many people buy a dog that shouldn't own a pet rock too, but that's not really the topic here LOL - or is it? I have forgotten now. Memory like a goldfish. Yes, gold fish - we should all start there, eh?

Oh yeah, back on topic then - with holding sleep, food, water, proper housing and so on --all relate to the last bullet point, denying it freedom from pain/suffering etc. Is it a stretch? Perhaps, but you should see how I spin that final one for grooming

 

[C1airey]

Thermal pyjama's were a godsend

Aren't they just?! Pup #1 came to us in September a couple of years ago and toilet training took us into the depths of winter. Even he wasn't keen on going out to wee in the cold and dark (especially when there was a nice warm kitchen with an easily-moppable floor...)!

 

[Abi90]

I do feel a bit sorry for anyone going into first time dog owning. If you read the stuff on the Internet, basically anything you do is cruel or unfair to one person or another!

The water example, I have read:
- never withold water from a dog (I agree with this one and would never do it however I have also read)...
- leaving a puppy with water overnight is setting it up to fail and need to wee and have an accident which is also unfair on it...

So what do you do other than go with your gut instinct on two directly contravening bits of advice?

There are more:

You shouldn't ignore your puppy crying in the night as it probably needs to wee and it's cruel but there are those in the "ignore it or it will never learn ad will have you up all night forever".

As a first time puppy owner myself it's a minefield! Whatever I do I'm mistreating the dog!

The vet said you should have a fat puppy... Dog trainer at puppy party said they should be thin. Breeder says only 5 minutes of play per month of age a day. Dog trainer says he's a spaniel and needs more!

I'm going with gut instinct, the breeders advice and advice from friends who have owned many dogs and my puppy seemes happy and healthy so far! I think as long as someone tries their best and learns from their mistakes and genuine ly wants to do the right thing by their dog then that's what matters. Everyone needs to have their first dog at some point!

 

[splashgirl45]

I do feel a bit sorry for anyone going into first time dog owning. If you read the stuff on the Internet, basically anything you do is cruel or unfair to one person or another!

The water example, I have read:
- never withold water from a dog (I agree with this one and would never do it however I have also read)...
- leaving a puppy with water overnight is setting it up to fail and need to wee and have an accident which is also unfair on it...

So what do you do other than go with your gut instinct on two directly contravening bits of advice?

There are more:

You shouldn't ignore your puppy crying in the night as it probably needs to wee and it's cruel but there are those in the "ignore it or it will never learn ad will have you up all night forever".

As a first time puppy owner myself it's a minefield! Whatever I do I'm mistreating the dog!

The vet said you should have a fat puppy... Dog trainer at puppy party said they should be thin. Breeder says only 5 minutes of play per month of age a day. Dog trainer says he's a spaniel and needs more!

I'm going with gut instinct, the breeders advice and advice from friends who have owned many dogs and my puppy seemes happy and healthy so far! I think as long as someone tries their best and learns from their mistakes and genuine ly wants to do the right thing by their dog then that's what matters. Everyone needs to have their first dog at some point!

exactly, dont go on to the internet for something as important as rearing a puppy , as you have said its best to take advice from others who have successfully gone through the first stages. the problem on this forum is that people ask for advice from those of us who have had dogs for years but it seems a waste of time to put a long post with helpful ideas from experienced dog owners if the poster does the opposite. yes we all had to learn but common sense must also be used...

 

[Abi90]

exactly, dont go on to the internet for something as important as rearing a puppy , as you have said its best to take advice from others who have successfully gone through the first stages. the problem on this forum is that people ask for advice from those of us who have had dogs for years but it seems a waste of time to put a long post with helpful ideas from experienced dog owners if the poster does the opposite. yes we all had to learn but common sense must also be used...

Oh I agree! By experienced dog owners have different opinions too! So it's still hard work!

 

[splashgirl45]

Oh I agree! By experienced dog owners have different opinions too! So it's still hard work!

yes but that is why common sense needs to be used. everyone does things a little differently so you take the bits that apply to your own situation. the op asked about witholding sleep to make the puppy go through the night and virtually all of the replies said not to....op then posted saying witholding sleep!!!!!! words fail me!!!!!

 

[Abi90]

yes but that is why common sense needs to be used. everyone does things a little differently so you take the bits that apply to your own situation. the op asked about witholding sleep to make the puppy go through the night and virtually all of the replies said not to....op then posted saying witholding sleep!!!!!! words fail me!!!!!

Oh yes! I completely understand, and that's just common sense without ever having had a dog! Mine was more of a general comment!

 

[RunToEarth]

See now, I'm afraid this makes me cross.

Why on EARTH would you try to keep a puppy awake just so you can get some extra sleep? Puppies NEED sleep in order to grow and develop properly. And her bladder is only tiny. She was probably asking for a wee when she woke you, and you ignored her.

Even now when my dogs wake me up in the night I get straight up to check and let them out. Invariably it's because they need to a wee or have a slightly upset stomach and can't hold on all night. I would never just ignore them.

What makes me more cross is people who ask for advice and then ignore it. It's akin to getting a horse vetted, the vet failing it and saying that absolutely no way should it be purchased, and then deciding to buy it, event it, and then get upset when it breaks.

Absolutely ludicrous.

I completely agree with this. I am absolutely horrified anyone would manipulate a puppy's sleep pattern in this way - I would seriously be thinking whether the commitment of a dog is for you OP, because they often don't fit around what you would like to do.

I would absolutely never ignore my girls if they woke me up, you are not going to train a puppy using your methods.

 

[Hexx]

I taught all my dogs "back to bed". They had no fusses or cuddles when they were up - out and wees then straight back in, no messing. Then straight back to bed. Sometimes, especially in the winter, they are up the stairs and back in bed before I have even locked the door!

I also found having a nightlight or something similar along the route to the back door helps, as you don't have to turn the main lights on - this can quite often stimulate the brain too much and causes problems going back to sleep.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Last pup I had would wake me about 4am, we'd go out for wees (him, not me!) then because he wasn't happy to go back in his crate, he was carefully snuggled between me and the OH and would sleep through til 6 when the alarm went off. :redface3: It was adorable. He went off to his new home fully crate trained and toilet trained.

 

[ldlp111]

Well thank you for making me feel really bad, at most she lost an hour of sleep, considering people who've had dogs before were saying why are you letting her sleep now if she's not at night.
Don't worry won't bother coming on here for anymore advice.

 

[Fools Motto]

It's like mumsnet, but for pups. Take some advice from others, and add your own input to suit you. (don't feel the need to announce what you're doing or not - you'll never win with pleasing everybody). I've struggled with house training with our now year old spaniel. Having never had this issue with previous dogs, I went with crate training which broke the cycle. Didn't cure it completely, that took dedication from me - very tiring. Like having a baby again.