Puppy pee in crate

[karllewis14]

So tbh , having had so many amazing responses and help (which i may add has worked and carter now sleeps from 11pm to 630am in his crate with no cries) - i wanted to come back with one question

In the last two nights i have noticed his bed is wet ; and this morning when i looked behind his bed - he had pee'd all over the back of the crate.

We have a medium sized crate which is probably too big because his bed takes up the first half ( i have attached two pics).

http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/karllewis14/media/F151B526-34B5-4BE6-92A5-FF7C875A6DE9.jpeg.html

http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/karllewis14/media/9824CBD4-B023-4DD0-A982-FC88D1CB4D36.jpeg.html

What suprised me was the fact that i had done the following:

- stopped his last drink at 930pm. (usual routine)

- took him outside and he had gone to the toilet twice before bed (11.30 last night), so he shouldnt have needed to go perhaps?

Am going to reduce the crate size but just wondered did anyone have any advice ? Reminder he is just under 4 months old...... is it just another phase thing i need to adjust to

 

[JillA]

Have you had him checked for infections? That's a lot of peeing for restricted access to water, I'd get him vet checked before you go any further. And if he gets the all clear, cover the floor of his crate with bedding - not many dogs will soil their own bedding

 

[AmyMay]

Set your alarm for 5.00am. Chances are at 4 months the time he's in his crate is just a little bit too long to hold his bladder.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Set your alarm for 5.00am. Chances are at 4 months the time he's in his crate is just a little bit too long to hold his bladder.

this ^^. his bladder will be tiny and they (bladders) are not mature for a year. get up a bit earlier. I've also never withheld water for a pup-not ever, is it a thing that many do?

 

[karllewis14]

when i say withheld - i just mean his last drink before bed time.... he gets ample drinks during day - its a common practice i believe before they go to bed

 

[karllewis14]

this ^^. his bladder will be tiny and they (bladders) are not mature for a year. get up a bit earlier. I've also never withheld water for a pup-not ever, is it a thing that many do?

when i say withheld - i just mean his last drink before bed time.... he gets ample drinks during day - its a common practice i believe before they go to bed

 

[QuobAsti]

Out of the 5 dogs we have, as pups they have all been different in the overnight toileting
1. Never had a problem with him going to toilet at all in his crate even when he was on medication to help clear fluids from his body (now 4yrs old)
2. She had one or two accidental wee's in her crate but otherwise no problems (now 3yrs old)
3. She wee'd and poo'd in her crate for months even with careful management (now 1yr old)
4. She has had one or two accidental wee's in her crate but otherwise has been brilliant with her toilet training in general (4 month old)
5. She constantly wee'd and poo'd in her crate to start with, then just wee'd in her crate, this would be during the day or night, this was still with careful management. I just used cheap fleece blankets for her bed and would change the bed whenever it was wet. Touch wood over the last week or two she is now managing to hold her wee until she is let out to the garden (4 months old)

All dogs have water bowls in their crates and we've never taken them away at any point even with those that wee in their crate.
I'm up between 5 - 5.30 specifically to get the pups out for toileting.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

when i say withheld - i just mean his last drink before bed time.... he gets ample drinks during day - its a common practice i believe before they go to bed

yes, I realised it was 'just' overnight-still, would never do it and have not heard of it before. when my retriever was a pup at that age, I was letting him out at 11.30ish and was up at 5am-11pm is hard for me as usually in bed by 10pm. He's now two and in the same crate as when he was a pup (in that it was a big crate for him then, not that its a tiny crate for him now ).

Getting him checked at vets is a good idea as well. also, what are you cleaning up the wee with? alot of household cleaners contain bleach which could encourage him to go in the same spot-best to get a special pet one-PaH do a good one.

 

[ponyparty]

He probably needs a smaller crate. It needs to be big enough for him to sleep in, but not move around in. Keep the bigger one for when he's fully grown though - and just sell the smaller one when he gets too big for it.
Messing their bed is very distressing for a dog, they do not like to mess in their sleeping area. He needs to be let out more often during the night. I know it's a pain, but it won't be for long - he's just a baby, think of him like a human baby (but one which develops much faster and will grow out of this phase in just a few more weeks!).

Then again, I wouldn't be shutting him in his crate overnight personally. I'd leave it ajar so that if he is going to have an accident, he can get away from his bed. I'd put a puppy pad by the back door or something. Even better, get a dog flap! But he does need to know that outside is where he has to pee first, and at the moment it's confusing for him because he can't last long enough so is forced to do it inside.
I also wouldn't withhold water.

When I got my dog, I had his crate in our room at first - so that when he stirred in the night, did his first quiet whimpers, I could pick him up and take him straight outside for his wee - before he peed in his bed or became so distressed that he was howling. This only lasted a few weeks, I gradually moved the crate out of our room and further away then downstairs, then shut in the kitchen when he could last all night.

He sounds like a distressed little pup to me - I saw your other thread about him howling, the peeing might even be because he's so distressed. I'd really urge you to take things back a step; if he's peeing in his bed then something is clearly going wrong.

Are you still in touch with his breeder? What does he/she recommend?

What do you feed him, out of interest?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

when i say withheld - i just mean his last drink before bed time.... he gets ample drinks during day - its a common practice i believe before they go to bed

I never restrict access to water.

I know some people don't like them but we used puppy pads in the crate for the Rottweilers until they were old enough to not need to wee during the night and were house-trained during the day. When we stopped using the pads, they stopped weeing in the crate, probably about 5 months. The pads made life much easier for us and meant that there was no bed wetting. Our crate was big enough to have 2 separate areas, one for sleeping, one for the pads. As adults they share a double crate, which has room for them sleep separately if they so choose.

 

[CorvusCorax]

It might need a vet check or it might just be a protest pee and your crate might be a bit big.
As said his bladder will be tiny so he might need out either a bit earlier or later.

I don't like pads as it encourages them to wee inside but each to their own.

I don't remove water but I don't like leaving a bowl full to the brim overnight, I leave enough to cover maybe a quarter of the bowl. I use one with hooks to avoid spillages.

 

[karllewis14]

hey - tbh ; he is actually far from distressed - he has been amazing. we have only had him at our rental home for 2 full weeks now and i think the howling was reflective of the environment. he has loads of room to move about during day in kitchen and hall.

he rings the bell when we are there to get out - he is a really confident pup and unfazed. he never cries when outside by himself ; he interacts with all other dogs brilliantly when on his walks (with dog walker) and on lead is amazing.

i think the point about getting up a bit earlier is a good one, the smaller crate and getting him checked out at the vet. Ill see how that works. thanks all.

 

[ponyparty]

I don't like pads either, but surely they're preferable to him peeing in his bed

 

[karllewis14]

this cud be a very good idea also - did you see the pic i attached of the crate - thanks again for ur feedback

 

[ponyparty]

Ok so he's peeing away from his bed, but still in the crate. I would say if this is allowed to continue, it will become habit and will be much harder to stop him doing this even into adulthood. You really need to get on top of it now, by trying some of the other things mentioned.

I would not put a puppy pad in the crate - it will just encourage him to do it in the crate all the more. He needs to learn that crate = bed only, peeing = outside only. Afraid getting up in the night is probably the only way you're going to crack this with him!

Best of luck.

 

[Blazingsaddles]

I think when you were getting woken up at 5 with him crying, he was probably needing a pee. Four months is still very young to hold a pee all night so either place a pee pad in the cage with him or go back to letting him outside for a pee at 5. So far, I haven’t had an issue with leaving a pad in the cage & toilet training. Once the bladders a bit bigger, they hold it for longer & you will be able to dispense with pads altogether. I also don’t withhold water at night.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I think when you were getting woken up at 5 with him crying, he was probably needing a pee. Four months is still very young to hold a pee all night so either place a pee pad in the cage with him or go back to letting him outside for a pee at 5. So far, I haven’t had an issue with leaving a pad in the cage & toilet training. Once the bladders a bit bigger, they hold it for longer & you will be able to dispense with pads altogether. I also don’t withhold water at night.

We have only used pads with the latest pups (5 yrs old now) and they are very clever girls but we came to the conclusion that , as they got bigger the scent from the pads was what was causing them to wee in the crate, so we stopped putting pads in and they stopped weeing overnight. You can't expect small pups to control their bladders overnight.
The water restriction could be causing bladder irritation which is contributing to the problem.

 

[MissTyc]

Mine did wee in crate until I bought him a smaller crate. Then he stopped immediately. Yours looks to have carefully avoided his bedding bless him

 

[Blazingsaddles]

We have only used pads with the latest pups (5 yrs old now) and they are very clever girls but we came to the conclusion that , as they got bigger the scent from the pads was what was causing them to wee in the crate, so we stopped putting pads in and they stopped weeing overnight. You can't expect small pups to control their bladders overnight.
The water restriction could be causing bladder irritation which is contributing to the problem.

For me, certainly at four months, to expect a pup to hold a wee is unfair. My concern with going to a smaller cage when at such a young age is that he would prefer to hold it in than pee on his bedding which I don’t think is healthy for his bladder or comfortable for him. His bladder control is not fully under control and even if he could hold on for a while eventually he will pee on his bedding. Am I making any sense!!!?. I’m getting a bit lost myself.....��

 

[SusieT]

Never withold water - you can damage his kidneys. Withholding water is not the way to toilet train.
Adequate breaks and positive re inforcement outside are important. And likely a smaller crate.

 

[ester]

blazingsaddles you do make sense though also I'd think it was a combination of things so as well as a smaller crate the OP needs ensure he gets out earlier/during the night so that he isn't holding.

 

[karllewis14]

folks - just to be clear this is only late at night i thought - water (2 bowls is present for 17hrs of the day)

 

[karllewis14]

blazingsaddles you do make sense though also I'd think it was a combination of things so as well as a smaller crate the OP needs ensure he gets out earlier/during the night so that he isn't holding.

def agree wit this - after doing alot of reading today. will setup my alarm to be 5am.

 

[ester]

folks - just to be clear this is only late at night i thought - water (2 bowls is present for 17hrs of the day)

I do think everyone realises that, but would still not do it.

 

[CMcC]

Am quite shocked by some of the comments here.

1. Expecting 4 month old puppy not to pee overnight. Bladder still very small.
2. Smaller crate, so can't move around.
3. With holding water overnight.

Sounds like canine Guantanamo Bay. Probably just me, feeling a bit grouchy today.
Be like me - puppies sleep in bed with me from when they arrive, soon wake you up when they want a wee. But usually in a few days sleep so well can't get them out of bed in the morning.

 

[karllewis14]

Am quite shocked by some of the comments here.

1. Expecting 4 month old puppy not to pee overnight. Bladder still very small.
2. Smaller crate, so can't move around.
3. With holding water overnight.

Sounds like canine Guantanamo Bay. Probably just me, feeling a bit grouchy today.
Be like me - puppies sleep in bed with me from when they arrive, soon wake you up when they want a wee. But usually in a few days sleep so well can't get them out of bed in the morning.

everyone has to do as they see fit - the pup is treated like gold ; not canine Guantanamo Bay. still learning and adopting to what suits... and asked for help so dont be shocked. its a forum!

I could comment on your puppies in bed with you but i prfer the female human ones. enjoy ur weekend

 

[SusieT]

OP- stop defending witholding water- WATER MUST BE AVAILABLE AT ALL TIMES. Witholding it is NOT a suitable toilet training technique.

 

[Abi90]

OP- stop defending witholding water- WATER MUST BE AVAILABLE AT ALL TIMES. Witholding it is NOT a suitable toilet training technique.

You’d be surprised how many puppy help websites suggest you withhold water overnight. I never did it with mine nor am I defending it but I imagine the OP has tried to be responsible and has done research on this and come across the “take water away when they go to bed” advice

 

[splashgirl45]

my pup always went in his crate at night and i didnt put water in for him as didnt feel it was necessary. i didnt regard it as withholding water, just that he is in the crate to sleep and shouldnt need it... he never went to his water bowl (which is available all of the time he is out of the crate) in the morning and was usually fast asleep when i got up. i was very lucky with him as he seems to have good bladder control and i used to go to bed about midnight and got up at 6, never had any accidents overnight but some during the day when i wasnt concentrating and i missed the signs. i would get up earlier with your pup as it sounds like he cant hold his wee yet, he is still very young to go all night and i think mine was an exception as i had never had a puppy before that could go all night from the word go.

 

[Clodagh]

Our pups don't have water overnight, in their crate. Mine have always been clean all night too - until the spaniel - but an earlier go round should cure it. I am sure you aren't but just clean it up, don't say anything or give out negative vibes.

ETA our crates are huge, as I am too mean to buy a new one every month when they grow. I never use pads either. Puppy pee is pretty inoffensive really.