Puppy Problem - Disgusting, dont read if ur eating lunch

[Tamollymoo]

My patterdale terrier is 7 months old now. I got her at 5 months and she was a bit of a rescue - the people didint want her and fed her inappropriately etc. She is really phobic of being in a cage. I tried to cage her as I did my year old Jack russell to help with toilet training but she would just go bonkers and scream and yelp and poo and pee everywhere in her cage - even in her bed.

I then moved them into the porch, where they can look out the door (its glass) and have their bed plus training mats and water. toys etc. Problem is she is fine while we are there, and will behave as though she is house trained. But they do get left 3 hours a day on their own (I go home at lunch time to let them out etc). I come home to sh*t everywhere - she walks it round, its in their bed etc. She pees everywhere and worse of all is eating poo, lots of it. She has even taken to eating poo from my other dog while she is still *going*. Its disgusting. She has been wormed and has a sensible diet, company and toys etc. She gets sh*t everywhere, all on her coat and her feet and wipes it all up the walls etc. She really has issues, I presume its a seperation anxiety thing from humans, but the poo thing is driving me mad. Its like she is doing it out of anger/frustration. Its a horrible habit and I have to stop it. She does it at night sometimes too - I let them out before I go to bed, and if she is not 'in the mood for bed' I get screaming and barking and she sh*ts everywhere. She has no respect for her bed at all either. Help please, really fed up.

 

[KJJ]

Sympathies... our 7 month old Patterdale bitch is very similar... she just doesn't respect the house as a NO GO TOILET ZONE.... iit's not that she isn't let out enough either... it is driving me mad but like yours she too will cr@p in her bed.... whereever she fancies... I HATE it.. and would be interested to hear others advice... my ridgie was house trained within a week... this little bitch is making me loose my patience!! (Thankfully she doesn't eat the faeces but she eats ALOT of stuff she shouldn't which makes her poop more!! ARGH!!!)

 

[Sooty]

It sounds like a nightmare situation, but this puppy is already on her third home in seven months, and is probably a bit bonkers as a result. I would not leave her with the other dog when you are out, as you cannot monitor their behaviour. Is your other dog a dog or a bitch? Two bitches of similar sizes and temperaments is asking for trouble! You have three separate problems really; the house training, the pooing when left and the poo eating. You can tackle the house training in the usual way, and I have to say in my experience I have found the two bitches I have owned were the slowest dogs to train. All my male dogs took a fraction of the time! The poo eating is a habit, and nothing to do with missing minerals. It is something she has learned to do, and is relatively easy to stop simply by not letting her do it. Be fastidious about beating her to any that are in the garden, and pick them up as soon as they are done if in the house. Once the pattern is broken she should forget about it. As for the pooing in the house, I would keep her separate from the other dog when there is nobody to supervise, and try again with the crate training. Don't shut her in, but put her food in there and encourage her not to be nervous of it. How often are you feeding her, and what on? If she has been fed inappropriately it may well be that she has digestive problems. There are so many issues to tackle, good luck and don't feel too bad if she is not the dog for you! Oh, and separate them at night too, if you can.

 

[Sooty]

[ QUOTE ]
she eats ALOT of stuff she shouldn't which makes her poop more!!


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you may have answered your own question there...

 

[archoak]

Our 8 month old border ate poo, mainly his own. He has grown out of it now more or less but will still eat others dogs poo when out on a walk sometimes

I too would suggest trying the crate again (get the biggest you can) let her scream, make a mess, at least it will be in one place to clean up afterwards (don't bother with a bed, just put an old towel at one end and lots of newspaper in the other). I think if you persevere you can train her, lots of luck

 

[Tamollymoo]

They are both terrier bitches, but my first one is an angel and was perfect to train. They get on well, I just worry that if I completely seperate her from us and the other bitch I am just doing what she was scared of anyway, if you see what I mean. She gets James Wellbeloved kibble in two meals plus fresh water and 2 biscuits at bed time.

Whe I got her they would give her loads of fuss, then get bored and shove her in a cage out the back. There were no other dogs so she would have felt totally rejected. She spent the first 2 days pooing sweetcorn, the woman said that she had run out of dog food and that was all she had. The poor thing probably was starving.

I have terrible trouble with her jumping on the table and work tops, if you turn your back, she is looking for scraps. She also will jump out of the garden so has to be tethered. I cant trust her at all and she goes very deaf and runs off, its scary. My only other thought was to shove her outside in a kennel. Coz twice I have thrown up and the stench in my porch and it makes me very upset.

 

[WelshRareBit]

Keep on with the crate, she might well howl and create but she isnt dying and she isnt in pain, she's being a petulant teen so please perservere! Go to bed half and hour earlier so that you arent dying to go to sleep - so you can go back and tell her to quiet down if she's crying.
Do not feed her after 6pm. What goes in must come out, so if you want less out - put less in! Eating poo can often be a sign of submission, and it also happens because of habit. My vet said to try pineapple juice in the water, but a few people have said that doesnt work.
Try leaving her for little and often if you can, building up to a bit longer each time. When you arrive home do not fuss her, just let her out and wait until she is calm to fuss her. Hopefully then she will realise that if she waits, you will return and let her out.

 

[Sooty]

To be brutally frank, if you have two terrier bitches who are similar in age, size and temperament, you will probably always have problems. I wouldn't be surprised if the older one is bullying her when there is no-one around to stop her. The younger one sounds a total nightmare, possibly because of her experience of possibly because that is the sort of dog she is. If she comes from working stock, which is possible for her breed, she will definitely have ideas of her own! I'd be tempted to rehome her if I was in your position.

 

[Tamollymoo]

Thats a little harsh Sooty. I want to sort the problem out not pass it on. I made the commitment to have her, just need a little advice. The other bitch couldnt pick on a fly so I doubt there is much bullying going on .

 

[Foxfolly]

We have and breed patterdales, from my experience they aren't the quickest at toilet training!!

Our older Girl (Well she's 2 and a bit) Gypsy wasn't fully house trained until she was at least 1yo, but she does still pee in her bed (Shredded paper in a plastic bed) in the kennel

They are out in the kennels during the day when we are out at work.

Her daughter Fudge (7 months old) is also a bit slow with the house training, we thought we had it nailed a couple of months ago and took away the newspaper at night but she decided the coconut mat was a suitable substitute

, we have now kept with the newspaper by the back door at night and she will usually go on that if its down but still has the odd accident in the kitchen if shes over excited!!

But the reports I've had from one of her brothers new owners was that he was really easy to house train and he only has the odd accident when over excited... so maybe its a bitch thing???!!!

None of ours have done the poop eating thing luckily so I'm afraid I can't help with that... it may be a bad habit she's got into and could be stress related or I'm sure I may have heard somewhere that it can also be a sign of them being short of certian nutrients but not sure what, I'm sure a vet would give you some advice over the phone.

If it is a bad habit then the only way I can think to stop it would be to tell her off every time you catch her doing it but them if she does it while you're out that won't help!!
Or maybe even lace a poo with somthing nasty like mustard so that when she goes to eat it she'll get a nasty taste...

might put her off trying another one...just a thought!!

You could put her in a muzzle while you're out to stop her eating it? Although this might not be a good idea if she's a bit stressed.. it might make her more upset!!

Any way good luck with it, I'm sure she'll sort herself out in the end!!

 

[Sooty]

Whatever you think best!

I for one wouldn't tolerate the situation you are in, and wouldn't consider sticking a seven month old dog in a kennel outside. That, to me, would be harsh.

 

[KJJ]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you may have answered your own question there...

[/ QUOTE ] LOL!!!

 

[MizElz]

A good way of stopping pups eating poo is to use an electric collar.....you put the collar on them, watch them from the window and when they go to eat it, zap them (it is a very low voltage, akin to the strength of a field fence battery, perhaps even less). It sounds barbaric but once they've had one shock, they tend not to come back for a second attempt! We were lent a collar by some friends when our Lab pup took to eating it as it came out of her mum's botty

however, we were too soft to put the collar on her! Eventually got her out of the habit by giving her a hard smack across the nose every time we caught her....did take a while though, and I'm sure the collar would have been a far quicker method!

 

[CAYLA]

As u mention she is most likely to pass motions when u are not in...I would say part of the problem is obs seperation anxiety....she needs to be taught a routie whilst u re in the house in order the settle whilst u are out....I would revert back to a crate....try a plastic one...u can get pretty descent size ones for large cats and terriers....this way u can gradually incrase the space she is learning to be clean in....and generally the smaller the space the less chance of mess.....and it will be easier to clean with a cloth rather than bars on a crate....it will also restrict more of her view...making it easier for u to enter and exit the home undetected.

The poo eating can be just sheer greed....it will smell delicious to dogs and therefor highly edible...I don't believe its a deficiency based problem...and as sooty suggests....pick all faeces up immediatley....and let her out seperate to the other dog...to lessen the chance of her devouring her s*it...try deterring her.....squirt her with a water pistol or a voice command.....thats usually enough for my dogs..lol

If she eats alot of s*it, she wil s*it it back out ten fold....normally in the shape of loose foul smelling crap

Give her small meals...and restrict any late meals as suggested.
U definatly need to deal with the issue of leaving her...starting from scratch....if u need any pointers on this...give me a shout.

 

[Blythebeck]

Is there anyway you can keep her kennelled outside when you are out or at night? All that poo would then be contained outside. She needs to be gradually introduced to the cage again, using it as her bed and feed area. When she is happy, try shutting her in it for 1 minute and gradually lenghening the time shut up. My pup is kennelled outside if I am away and over night, because he is a chewer and bin raider, and my house would look like a tip if I left him for longer than 10 minutes. He has a heated kennel and a double duvet as his bed, so warmth is not an isse. He is only 8 months and he will grow out of it. (hopefully)

This sounds like a seperation anxiety problem, are you paying a lot of attention to her before you go away? 10 minutes before you go away ignore her, just go out for 1 minute, return and ignore her again for 5 minutes. Extend this time you are away gradually, over a period of days and see if that helps. But I think an outside kennel would see you over the worst of the problem.

 

[Patches]

My ex used to own a Patterdale Terrier. Hateful dog it was too! All it wanted to do was kill things...including me.

Would never own one again through choice. She was good in the house, toilet wise, but was a very high maintenance dog temperament wise. Her litter brother ended up being shot by the farmer they had her from. He went down a rabbit hole with two other dogs. Killed the rabbit and came back up and killed the two other dogs before the farmer turned his gun on him.

 

[WelshRareBit]

[ QUOTE ]
My ex used to own a Patterdale Terrier. Hateful dog it was too! All it wanted to do was kill things...including me.

Would never own one again through choice. She was good in the house, toilet wise, but was a very high maintenance dog temperament wise. Her litter brother ended up being shot by the farmer they had her from. He went down a rabbit hole with two other dogs. Killed the rabbit and came back up and killed the two other dogs before the farmer turned his gun on him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heartwarming lol

 

[AmyMay]

A description of Patterdale's:

Description of the Patterdale Terrier Dog and Puppies Temperament

The Patterdale Terrier dogs are smaller than most terriers and are often described as fiery or feisty. The smallest terriers are ready to take on any opponents - a necessary attribute when hunting and killing vermin but not so good for a family pet! Some terriers are yappy and are known to nip boisterous children. They can also be quite independent and difficult to train. On the positive side Patterdale's can be friendly, stable and loyal pets....


Sorry can't give you any suggestions on how to cope with the problem - other than to suggest that the dog may do better in a working home??

 

[Acolyte]

Wow I really had no idea that Patterdales could be such nasty little things

They won't be on my list of possible breeds when I am looking for something smaller!

 

[Patches]

[ QUOTE ]
A description of Patterdale's:

Description of the Patterdale Terrier Dog and Puppies Temperament

The Patterdale Terrier dogs are smaller than most terriers and are often described as fiery or feisty. The smallest terriers are ready to take on any opponents - a necessary attribute when hunting and killing vermin but not so good for a family pet! Some terriers are yappy and are known to nip boisterous children. They can also be quite independent and difficult to train. On the positive side Patterdale's can be friendly, stable and loyal pets....



[/ QUOTE ]

That was Jade, our Patterdale, down to a tee.

Couldn't trust her with the kids as she was convinced they were lower than her in the pecking order. When I met my ex Jasper, my cocker spaniel, was only 4 months old. They used to get on ok until he got a bit older. Then she'd turn on him without warning. One day he fought back and she wouldn't back down.

We knew then we had to re-home her instantly. We couldn't have them fighting and I didn't trust her anyway. As I said in my other post, they are not a dog I'd ever choose to own again.

She looked like Gnasher too!

 

[AmyMay]

Don't think they're nasty dogs at all - just not bred to be a house hold pet.

I think they're super - but would not be in my top 10 to own though......

 

[Patches]

I agree with you Amymay.

Ironically, a Patterdale would probably love life on our farm. She just wasn't sociable with other dogs or small children....or rabbits, cats, foxes, ferrets and the likes.

My ex's parents had Jade's sister. She was better around children but still not good with other dogs around her own size. They had a Ladrador as well and she used to try to assert herself with Whisky but he'd just put a foot on her and hold her on the floor till she gave up. Quite comical really.

I think over the years they are now more standardised too. Jade was quite tall but Ginny, ex in-laws, was really tiny. They were litter siblings too. Are they now a recognised breed with the Kennel Club because they weren't back when Jade and Ginny were bred.

 

[danhappy]

Cant really offer any advice, but you have my sympahies, as Dante was exactly the same (except for the poo eating bit), but he would go everywhere. spread it around and all sorted. Using the DAP diffuser did snap him out of it, but he still has SA, just the vocal and chewing/scrathing side.

 

[Damnation]

Just leave her in the crate, or maybe get a bigger one, Freya our middle dog used to RESENT the crate, she would "squeak" at god knows what hours, she would sound like a terrier, but shes a labrador. She would sh*t in the crate, walk it in, roll in it, pee in it etc. We got a massive crate and now she loves crates, she is 4 now and when she had her litter of puppies the whelping box was in the room with the crate. We had to close the crate so she couldn't get in because she kept abandoning the puppies! She will still hop in now even though the crate is her daughters bed now! the usually have a good old mother/daughter snuggle lol! Is your other Jack Russel kept with your puppy? If not maybe that will help?