Puppy socialisation

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Moobli

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I’m currently trying to decide how to socialise my new pup with strange dogs. I want a neutral reaction ideally - neither overly friendly nor reactive. My gut tells me that much of that will be to do with my pup’s personality but I want to try to train for it too. At the moment I’m thinking I’ll work on play with my pup and also having tons of tasty treats so I can keep pup focused on me while allowing him to see other dogs, people, situations peripherally rather than interacting with them, if that makes sense. But as a friend and I had the discussion, will that kind of training/interaction avoid giving pup the knowledge on how to react to a loose dog that gets in his face?

How do you all socialise your pups?
 
We got our Rottweiler pups used to Dad's elderly Lab bitch before their vaccs were complete, both at her home and ours, then we were lucky that everything fell into place. We took them to Bramham on the Thursday, it was relatively quiet, all dogs had to be on a lead, lots of people, including mobility scooter users, wanted to talk to them ("What are they?" Some surprised looks, as if Rotts are never babies). They had a whale of a time, got tired and slept, enjoyed an ice cream, even had a toddler very interested when they were eating their dinner in the car park and would have been happy to share with her.
A couple of days later we took them with the elderly Lab to a local Agricultural Show, which was busier but she showed them how to behave. Of course we kept them to the quieter areas of the showground where possible. They then got used to other family members' dogs, playing with them and learning that adult dogs don't always want to be climbed over etc.
Because of these experiences, they love going to shows, they do not expect to be able to play with every dog they meet when out and about but they do enjoy playing with familiar dogs.
We took great care to socialise them because we know that Rotts can easily become fear aggressive and we obviously didn't want that. I wouldn't encourage a pup to play every time they see a dog, you actually want them to walk on by without making a fuss. The time to treat is when they have done that, imo. As you say, a lot depends on the temperament of the pup. We had met both parents of our pups and knew that they were very steady.
 
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A lot will come from nature/genetics and a lot will come from the female and how she raises them.
I perceive socialisation as ignoring things/being OK with them/not really taking them under their notice.
With the last dog I had from a pup I took him to lots of open days, fairs, concerts, sports fixtures, places where there were crowds etc, feed him, play with a ball etc when he was a pup. His previous owner took him to the train station or outside schools at going home time.
However he does have a nervy edge from nature (especially from his grandsire) which manifested itself when he matured and I would always have to top this up throughout his life.
It's not really a problem for me, the trade off is speed and power and energy and flashy style, so I didn't mind traipsing to yet another village festival every so often :p
I did let him tear arse around with other dogs as well as a puppy, and I wish I hadn't. He is neutral/will ignore other dogs but if they get up in his face, he will chase them off quite vociferously.
He is not inclined to be into people (genetically a self-pleaser) or other dogs but regarding the latter, I will never know if this is natural or because he got roughed up and slam-dunked too many times by bullies.
 
Game fairs and the like are great for when the pup is older and has confidence with lots of noise and bustling places, town is great for that.
I am really lucky and have a few dogs where I am who can take or leave other dogs.
Not sure how far you are but your welcome to bring your pup to meet them, best in dribs and drabs but apart from my lurcher they are not particularly bothered about other dogs and will go about their business and may or may not say hello to an unknown dog.
Rather then expect your pup to ignore other dogs you want other dogs to ignore your pup, the other dogs then become boring and non threatening, they are then less exciting and less if a distraction. Your pup will then decide for itself and with the right temperament will grow up to be less interested in other dogs.
 
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Pearlsasinger said:
We got our Rottweiler pups used to Dad's elderly Lab bitch before their vaccs were complete, both at her home and ours, then we were lucky that everything fell into place. We took them to Bramham on the Thursday, it was relatively quiet, all dogs had to be on a lead, lots of people, including mobility scooter users, wanted to talk to them ("What are they?" Some surprised looks, as if Rotts are never babies). They had a whale of a time, got tired and slept, enjoyed an ice cream, even had a toddler very interested when they were eating their dinner in the car park and would have been happy to share with her.
A couple of days later we took them with the elderly Lab to a local Agricultural Show, which was busier but she showed them how to behave. Of course we kept them to the quieter areas of the showground where possible. They then got used to other family members' dogs, playing with them and learning that adult dogs don't always want to be climbed over etc.
Because of these experiences, they love going to shows, they do not expect to be able to play with every dog they meet when out and about but they do enjoy playing with familiar dogs.
We took great care to socialise them because we know that Rotts can easily become fear aggressive and we obviously didn't want that. I wouldn't encourage a pup to play every time they see a dog, you actually want them to walk on by without making a fuss. The time to treat is when they have done that, imo. As you say, a lot depends on the temperament of the pup. We had met both parents of our pups and knew that they were very steady.
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Thanks. I haven't properly socialised a small pup for ten years. The working collie pups don't get that kind of training and the last personal dog of mine was 8 months when I got him. He came from a kennel environment and so I did socialise him in much the same way I would a small pup but it was easier in a way as he already had recognisable temperament traits and was a calm, social young dog. He is the father of the pup so hopefully his good nature will have rubbed off. I am a big fan of the dog trainer Michael Ellis and so have been studying his methods of puppy raising and he advises the play/feed around other dogs so the pup focuses on you but absorbs the surroundings around him. A concern I have is that ME trains sport dogs for competition and so his dogs may not lead the sort of life my dogs are going to do. He is also in the US, where walking dogs off lead in the countryside that we take for granted over here is not really the done thing over there. I am going to try and be relaxed about the whole thing and be led by the kind of puppy I have. I haven't yet decided on puppy classes or not.

As with rotties, shepherds can also be predisposed to fear aggression, lunging etc and I really want to avoid that if at all possible.
 
CorvusCorax said:
A lot will come from nature/genetics and a lot will come from the female and how she raises them.
I perceive socialisation as ignoring things/being OK with them/not really taking them under their notice.
With the last dog I had from a pup I took him to lots of open days, fairs, concerts, sports fixtures, places where there were crowds etc, feed him, play with a ball etc when he was a pup. His previous owner took him to the train station or outside schools at going home time.
However he does have a nervy edge from nature (especially from his grandsire) which manifested itself when he matured and I would always have to top this up throughout his life.
It's not really a problem for me, the trade off is speed and power and energy and flashy style, so I didn't mind traipsing to yet another village festival every so often :p
I did let him tear arse around with other dogs as well as a puppy, and I wish I hadn't. He is neutral/will ignore other dogs but if they get up in his face, he will chase them off quite vociferously.
He is not inclined to be into people (genetically a self-pleaser) or other dogs but regarding the latter, I will never know if this is natural or because he got roughed up and slam-dunked too many times by bullies.
Click to expand...

Thanks CC. The female is a social, strong nerved bitch - not stressy, so hopefully that will be passed on to the pups. I agree with your perception of socialisation and that is how I see it. I want the pup to get used to lots of things without really taking any great notice of them. I live quite remotely so will have to make an effort to find places to visit where there are enough new experiences without the pup becoming overwhelmed. I don't want to go to beaches etc where there are lots of out of control dogs off lead, but your idea of places with crowds and on lead dogs only is a good one, thanks. I don't mind my pup running with the collies here when he is a bit older and there are a variety of temperaments that I can slowly introduce him to in our kennelled dogs so hopefully that will help.

Like you said originally though, I also believe genetics play one of the biggest roles in the temperament of the adult dog. I just want to give as much of a helping hand as possible.

My old german bred dog was reactive as a young dog, despite careful socialisation and I am sure much of it was genetic. I spent a long time taking him to more populated dog walking areas to work on his reactivity. As time passed I decided it was ridiculous to put him and myself through it when there was actually no need to and so I began just walking him in non doggy areas. He’s a much happier dog and I’m a happier owner. He’s actually less reactive now if we do come across people or dogs but I’m not sure if that’s down to not having the stress of being exposed to it daily or just he’s older and can’t be arsed :D
 
twiggy2 said:
Game fairs and the like are great for when the pup is older and has confidence with lots of noise and bustling places, town is great for that.
I am really lucky and have a few dogs where I am who can take or leave other dogs.
Not sure how far you are but your welcome to bring your pup to meet them, best in dribs and drabs but apart from my lurcher they are not particularly bothered about other dogs and will go about their business and may or may not say hello to an unknown dog.
Rather then expect your pup to ignore other dogs you want other dogs to ignore your pup, the other dogs then become boring and non threatening, they are then less exciting and less if a distraction. Your pup will then decide for itself and with the right temperament will grow up to be less interested in other dogs.
Click to expand...

Yes that makes sense - I think a combination of my dog focusing on me and finding other dogs boring through past experiences might be the best way to go. Thanks for the offer but think you are a good way from me. I do have a number of dogs here that aren't that interested in other dogs, so that should help.
 
WorkingGSD said:
I’m currently trying to decide how to socialise my new pup with strange dogs. I want a neutral reaction ideally - neither overly friendly nor reactive. My gut tells me that much of that will be to do with my pup’s personality but I want to try to train for it too. At the moment I’m thinking I’ll work on play with my pup and also having tons of tasty treats so I can keep pup focused on me while allowing him to see other dogs, people, situations peripherally rather than interacting with them, if that makes sense. But as a friend and I had the discussion, will that kind of training/interaction avoid giving pup the knowledge on how to react to a loose dog that gets in his face?

How do you all socialise your pups?
Click to expand...

Hi! I would ideally want to make my puppy comfortable with the world around him. Here are a few things you could do:

1. Playing ball with him
2. Doing yoga together
3. Gardening
4. Taking him/her to various places like the vet's office, pet stores etc.
5. Get him/her used to daily household sounds.
6. Introduce him/her to new people in the family.
7. Make him/her interact with other dogs during a walk.
8. Start training him.
 
We don't actually set out to socialise ours, but I suspect our goals (working gundogs) are different to people with dogs for different jobs. Ours are probably more like your collies, WGSD. They come home to a house with several dogs already, as well as our four in our house also n the farm are MIL's 2 terriers, my mothers old collie and BIL calls round often with his four. Oh and the tenants spaniel. To me, the single most important thing is that a dog can speak dog. They must understand dog body language and social niceties. I have no problem with the adult dogs tellnig the puppy to sod off when they have had enough. (All our adults can be trusted to only say it as much as is needed). I also don't want our dogs to be friendly to strange humans. I am happy for them to bark if somerone comes to the house and when out I just want them to ignore people. I am paranoid about theft so would never want my dog to approach a stranger in a friendly manner. I don't want them to go to a stranger at all.
 
Heaven knows I’m a total novice compared to you lot where it comes to dogs, and I’ve made heaps of mistakes, but I’m pleased with how mine is in regard to other dogs (perhaps that aspect is genetics rather than training). He is now 9 months and has so far never had a bad experience with another dog so that probably is a large part of it.

I took him to puppy classes (and continue with dog classes) but these were/are out in the open air, with heaps of distractions and all puppies are training rather than romping about loose. They were all learning basic tasks whilst surrounded by other puppies and owners but it wasn’t one big playtime.

He also went to loads of national trust properties, Eden project, beach, and into lots of cafes, garden centres and restaurants as a young puppy. Places where dogs were expected to be on leads rather than racing around loose.

When allowed he plays brilliantly, in that he asks politely with a bow and a gentle wag and is neither aggressive nor overly submissive but he also walks beautifully past other dogs we meet out on walks or in cafes without any daft behaviour or attempts to interact. He’s so lovely around other dogs and has such a lovely temperament without an ounce of aggression but I’m so aware of how easy it is for them to become fearful that I live in fear of his first aggressive dog interaction. I’ll admit I try to avoid the town park type places because perhaps totally incorrectly I see them as places where ‘townie’ type dogs get their limited exercise (as many don’t have decent size back gardens to run off steam in) and all seem to be let off lead to go a bit nuts and out of control.
 
I would agree with the others that things like shows and National Trust properties provide good socialisation opportunities but I think exposure to off ead dogs is important too. One of our regular dog walking areas quite often has dogs being walked that are not well under control, or dog walkers with too many dogs. I tend to avoid it really as our older dog is reactive with dogs if they are in his face. With the new pup though I was keen to take him there to ensure he was exposed to all different types of situations and dogs. He was a bold pup and quite independent, would not approach another dog through choice and had v good recall from the start. I always had him off lead as it meant he could run away if he was intimidated by another dog and not risk getting tangled. I was confident that he would run to me, not actually run away. He was my first pup and it has worked well and he is still happy to mind his own business with other dogs and will always just take himself out of the way if another one starts trouble. I suppose it will depend on your pup's temperament how you approach it. It is a fine line I think between exposing them to as much as possible and ensuring they do not get a fright. You are a very experienced dog owner and I am sure you will know fairly early on where that line is. I would say that the early efforts we made to expose him to other dogs mean my life is much easier now and he is a pleasure to walk and I never have to worry about what other people's dogs are up to. Our lurcher on the other hand, who was not well socialised as a pup, is a pain in the neck and I am constantly looking around on a walk to see what people are up to and avoiding those who do not look in control of their dogs.
Have I missed a thread where you introduced the new pup? Is it one of Zac's? I don't come on here that much any more but I seem to remember that he had a litter with 1 pup only in Scandinavia somewhere last year but you were not having that one. I was only talking to my partner yesterday about how lovely Zac is and that we should get a working German Shepherd next.
 
Thanks for the recent replies. So much is genetics that I hope to have a headstart in that department. I’m definitely going to visit garden centres, supermarkets, dog friendly cafes etc, look into a decent pup training club and then play the rest by ear.

Thanks Sprig. Pups were born just two days ago (and are in this country - hooray!) and yes Zak is the sire.
 
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