puppy training question

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dragonflys

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Today i took my 7 month old border collie obedience training for the first time.
We have done other bits and pieces, but nothing this formal before.

I phoned the lady who does the training before and she told me about the classes and how she works etc, and her website backs this up.
But today when i get there i find that she trains with treats, ie dog gets treat for getting it right.

I am a bit concerned about training like this as i am worried she may nip or always expect treats, but am open to trying it.

Does any one else train/work like this? What are opinions on this?
Thanks for replies : )
 
Hi!
I train mine with reward based training. Works brilliantly.
Havent personally had any problems with nipping but mine all know the command 'gently' anyway (never really taught this command formally, just learnt it)

You phase the treats out so that it becomes a lottery as to whether the dog will get a treat or not making them want to please even more. Our older dogs don't even expect treats now and my 4 month old cocker puppy is still in training :D There's a really good program called 'its me or the dog' which shows this training in practice really well.

Maybe you could talk to the trainer about it, i'm sure she'd be happy to explain it in detail and relieve and concerns.

Hope that helped :)

Elle
 
I don't always use the clicker, sometimes just treats, sometimes toys, sometimes just praise, and I have had no nipping problems.

As Elle says, you eventually phase the treats out, although I still use them every so often to reinforce. At first for ex, I always rewarded a retrieve with a treat, now I hardly ever do - just very, very occasionally.
 
The treat is there to motivate and mark/reward correct behaviours. Clickers do exactly the same, all a clicker says to the dog is 'that was correct, reward incoming'. Clickers are fantastic for timing your reward, you can mark the correct behaviour at just the right moment.

Of course you don't have to train with food. If your dog is play orientated then you can use a toy as a motivator. However, you should offer something as motivation/reward. If you want to know about the basis of positive reinforcement have a Google of the the psychologist Skinner. In particular his studies involving 'Skinners box' which details reinforcement. (And no, I'm not a radical behaviourist like he was, but the theory does work, for reasons stated outside the behaviourist model :p).

I wouldn't worry too much about your pup always expecting food. Treats are phased out once the behaviour is learnt, although you should still supply them now and then. Variable ratio reinforcement is very effective; people who become addicted to gambling are a good example of why.

As for snatching treats, as said, the 'gently' command isn't too hard to teach. And most dogs should know to take a treat gently anyway, regardless of training method :)

If training with treats worries you, have a chat with whoever is running the classes, as suggested :)
 
I too use positive reinforcement with treats, and as a jackpot rewards... a squeaky ball!

The treats are used while the dog learns something, but once learnt the treats then can be phased out and as said above, used every so often to reinforce it. Agree with pix and the gambling comparison. My old trainer used to say people don't get addicted to vending machines because you press the button and know exactly what you're going to get, gamblers are addicted because you never know when the big reward is going to happen! - it keeps the enthusiasm!

Your instructor should tell you how to do this, as it was your your dogs first day in that environment they were probably keeping it relaxed and positive for them.

As for the nipping she shouldn't develop this behaviour purely through treat training, and you can teach her to take a treat nicely from your hand.
 
stargirl88 said:
My old trainer used to say people don't get addicted to vending machines because you press the button and know exactly what you're going to get, gamblers are addicted because you never know when the big reward is going to happen! - it keeps the enthusiasm!
Click to expand...

Exactly! A much clearer and well expanded example of variable reinforcement than mine. Thanks :D
 
Thanks for all help.
I at least understand now, it came as a surprise to me to be training in this way as it hadnt been mentioned before.

I will continue with the training i think, now that i see what i am meant to be doing :)

btw, what do you all use as treats? Trainer used cheese but gets a bit sticky!
 
One of mine likes the smelliest oldest cheese you can find - he is in heaven with mouldy old cheddar :rolleyes: and the other loves pepperami chopped up really small.

I've tried leftover roast beef etc but that gets really nasty if you forget and leave it in the treat bag / coat pocket for a week......
 
Another one who trains with food :) No nips, she did go through a jumping up phase though - mostly with recall, she'd come haring back and jump for the treat. So I added in the "sit" command. So it would be "Poppy, here", then as she reached me, "and sit", so now she comes running back and sits at my feet looking hopeful :D
 
I'd rather a dog jump up and keep active during heelwork than ignore/stick nose on the ground :)

DF, I think I gave you advice on hand-feeding before, it does work a treat with the right sort of dog (IE food-sluts who don't focus :p)
 
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