Pushy, mouthy youngster

[Pink Gorilla]

I’ve just bought an unbacked 4 year old. He is however extremely bad mannered and pushy on the ground. Shakes his head in the air, chews the halter and shoves you about with his head when trying to get his halter on and off. Once the halter is finally on he’s constantly chewing me, shoving me around with his head and rubbing his head on me. Im doing usual horsemanship groundwork methods to move his feet and he’s doing, well when he actually concentrates. But it’s a battle to get him to stop shoving me with his head and mouthing at me constantly to even use the methods correctly. Any tips? I don’t want to smack him on the nose really. But happy for pressure release, or clicker training etc ideas.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Really with things like this you need someone local to you who can come out and work with you and youngster, it sounds as though you may need help applying the groundwork principles at all times if he is good when you're working with him and not the rest of the time. With a bolshy youngster, you are working with him always, there is no down time in terms of manners. It sounds very typical and I wouldn't imagine they haven't done a lot with him before now in his previous home, or he has been allowed to get away with bad manners.

Me personally, if you are sure that he knows where he should be (out of your space) then I would step towards him a few paces and clap loudly everytime he goes to do it.

 

[Pink Gorilla]

Yes I think he lived out in a herd in a large space in Wales. He had routine care, such as feet picking out and rugs etc, but was never brought in, tied up and trained from what I gather from what his previous owner’s told me. Just sort of rugged and feet picked out whilst loose in the field.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Edited to say, sorry for the essay!!

By the sounds of it I have a very similar horse - he's 10 and I got him in Jan, but he was bargey, pushy, tried to rub on you, shoulder barge you to direct your movement when leading, bite, crowd me and was just quite vile - not nasty but just horrible manners as he hadn't been worked with much. My go to noise for 'no' is 'ah' and a clap. I like a clap as it's a shock noise to snap them out of behaviour and I don't think hitting them all the time is going to leave you with a relaxed horse. You can also do it from far away once they know that that noise means stop whatever behaviour you're doing. I wouldn't bother with clicker training, I have made that mistake and it adds tension, especially with food - I also wouldn't use treats at this point.

Me personally I would ignore the chewing as he is a youngster and they explore things with their mouth. As long as it isn't actually being nippy and doesn't progress towards human clothing/humans then it's okay - some other people feel differently about it. If the teeth come towards humans I'd clap and move towards him (by this I mean a few steps, at pace. I want him to shoot backwards. It's a definite no to the behaviour - I like to be clear and only have to do it a couple of times, rather than mess about with small gestures and them think they can get away with it - just my personal opinion), if the teeth make contact with humans then my hand or elbow makes contact with whichever part of the horse is closest. You usually only have to do this once or twice.

Re: the pushyness I would take him in the school/field on a 10ft line and lead him around as you normally would, when you stop he needs to stop but if he is in your space I would back him up until he isn't and then drop the pressure, stand for a few seconds and walk on. To ask him to back up you can push into his chest with your hand, lean into his chest with your elbow and also put noseband pressure by putting pressure through the rope too, taking a dressage type whip and using the thick end to bump into his chest if you need increased pressure or if you need to step it up again or snap him out of some behaviour then I would clap and step towards him - I usually add the word back too as it's my personal preference to add vocals to whatever I am asking (and it's a habit of mine). A lot of ground work says to waggle the rope but I'm not a huge fan as if you do a small movement they don't always get it straight away if they are already bad mannered, and if you shake it big it just makes them flinch their heads away, I prefer a calm but clear instrution. Once you have established this, the horse should put himself where he needs to be if you stop and he is too close, and he should be much more attentive to where you are. Then do this all the time, to and from the field, washbox, everywhere and several times.

This should also fix the head hitting you thing as you won't be close enough for him to do so. If he tries to do it when you are doing something in the stable with him, then either move yourself and clap, or put your elbow out so he meets that with his head.

Once you have the out of your space and backwards command instilled you can move on to him yielding his hindquarters, again in headcollar but with head flexed towards you and then hand pressure on his rump, or thick end of whip pressure/taps on his rump if you would prefer to remain standing by his head. Same with yielding the shoulder but then the head is flexed away from you into the direction of the movement you want, and then same again for full body sideways, but pressure point to ask is just behind the shoulder, where your leg would be if you were riding - head flexion for this is also in the direction in which you want him to travel; moving the whole body can be tricky for them to get at first so just keep at it, and reward even one movement in the direction you want. I have also with my boy added in things like picking up feet when I tap on the back of his knee/hock. Or waiting a couple of steps away from me while I put his feed down with a 'wait' command, and not moving to eat until I say 'good boy', even if I am not standing over the bowl any longer. It's little commands like this that keep him tuned into small gestures from me and keep him thinking about what I am asking as otherwise he can slip into old habits.

 

[paddi22]

have you had a good dentist up? I've a very mouthy youngster with some similar behaviours and it was because he had dental issues.

 

[[145599]]

I have worked with a horse similar before and you need to make sure that you instantly pickup on bad behavior and use ‘no’ or a voice command like that to help them know when they are doing the wrong thing and to stop it. I also find that the most important thing to do is really embrace the positive work and reward that with pats,rubbing, voice etc (no food at this point). I sometimes forget this and it really messes with the horse because they become unsure and confused. Also keep them focused on you a lot instead of on other things which I find essential once it’s been taught but it takes youngsters a while to hook on to this idea. Good luck