put out on full loan..... now gone....... prob sold to dealer

[251libby]

PLEASE HELP ME!!
3 years ago I put my pony out on loan, only to discover she had been sold to a dealer who would not sell her back to me, he had passport and i cannot remember his name.
She is a 12.2hh liver chesnut mare, she a welsh b x arab she is around 14 years old, she has a white star in the middle of her forehead. She has an unsuitable temperment for a child, hse is known to bite! She is very fizzy mounted games pony. She will refuse any jump you put her at, but is very loving when you get to know her. She suffers teribly with fly bites without the correct management.
She was put out on loan with her full brother who is 13h and a silver dun (or some call him blue roan) with compleatly black legs and head, he is a fantastic jumping pony but is also very fizzy he is around 16 years old.
They were known as Harriet and George, both extreamly easy to load. and were put out on loan in the West Sussex area. I would love ot know if they are ok and if there in a good home, or would even like to know who they belong to so i can contact them
Any info would be much appritiated
Sorry to ramble on, i want to give as much info as pos.
please help if you can

 

[ladyt25]

So, as far as you know the ponies have been passed on with their passports? Do you still have any note of their passport numbers as I would suggest you at least notify the passport issuing agency so there are aware should anyone apply for change of ownership.

Did both the ponies go to the dealer?

 

[KarynK]

If this happens you need to report the theft to the police and hand the matter over to them to deal with. It will help the police if you have a signed agreement or witness proving that you loaned the Pony and did not sell or gift it to those who sold it.

The Holding of a Passport for a horse DOES NOT PROVE OWNERSHIP it should say that on the passport itself, it can never form a document of ownership as it is required to always be with the horse by law.

Basically once reported to the police and proven that the pony is still yours, any person with the pony is then in receipt of stolen goods. But you need to speak to the police and or a solicitor to recover your property.

PLEASE if you leand/loan/lease or let your equine out of your sight do it wil a SIGNED agreement. There is one available free from the BHS web site. Take pictures of the horse and include a copy of the passport identification and front page. Note any microchip/freezebrand. Then you have the legal means to get your horse back should the worse happen.

 

[T_K]

From experience I know the Police wont have anything to do with this sort of case, they say it's a civil matter and should be dealt with by the civil courts. The Police will only attend if you break the law trying to get your pony back....

 

[Gingernags]

What on earth is it with the Police giving out this crap? Theft is NOT a civil matter. Are they saying if someone borrows your car then sells it - that its a civil matter?

It is your horse, your property, someone has stolen it, don't accept "its a civil matter" off them!!!

 

[the watcher]

[ QUOTE ]
From experience I know the Police wont have anything to do with this sort of case, they say it's a civil matter and should be dealt with by the civil courts. The Police will only attend if you break the law trying to get your pony back....

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually that isn't strictly true, they will investigate, but the crunch comes at the stage where the file has to get past the CPS, and if there is a less than even chance of success they simply won't take it on. However the burden of proof is less in a civil court so the prspects for success are higher.

 

[T_K]

Well they wouldn't help me and even tried to arrest me when I suggested I was going to enter the field and jump my pony out without touching the YOs land!

 

[LindaW]

Don't want to get your hopes up, but I saw a chestnut pony advertised on either horsequest or horsemart recently, and what I remember of the description was similar. Don't have time to find the ad just now to see if its the same pony as I have to leave for work, but might be worth a look.

Apologies if it's not, just that arab x so small stuck in my mind (and she was pretty)

ETA, just had a quick look and cant find the ad:-(

 

[251libby]

Thank for every1's replies..... to answer ure questions, wen i put her out on loan she didn't have a passport, they were just coming into action wen i put her on loan...... the police won't get involved because i dont know where the pony is!!!
I have nothing to say that I even owned the pony, only people and photos etc. Her brother also went to the dealer as far as i am aware and they both are not there now. : (

 

[Gingernags]

Surely the police can go and question the dealer?

Not that I'm advocating it (honestly!!!) but I'd go round and pay a visit with a couple of big lads if the police won't do anything!

Its so infuriating, why won't a lot of the police force take horse theft - and theft whilst on loan in particular - seriously? Its more than just property - don't we pay our council tax for the privilige of a police force (amongst other things). It has been borrowed and dold on with the intent to permanently deprive you of it, therefore its stolen, therefore they should investigate!

I'm getting the foal chipped AND freezemarked as soon as I can so I have documents to prove he's mine in case of thieving scum thinking they can take him. Mare already done!

 

[KarynK]

Iaccept it can be frustrating but with all property including horses you need to be able to prove it is yours before the police can do anything at all. Realistically they have neither the time, resources nor remit to spend time establishing ownership of property, that is down to the owner. Which is why they become very frustrated with a lot of unmarked stolen items of all kinds that they are forced to give back to people they were seized from as the original owner cannot be traced/identified.

Hence the posts to everybody to spend some time marking things and making sure that if you lend horses or equipment to people EVEN YOUR BEST FRIEND make a signed written agreement and keep a copy. Mark your things and keep photos of valuable items and spend a bit extra on your next vet visit and get the horse chipped, then put signs up to say everything is MARKED. Keep all your receipts somewhere safe, this will help with insurance claims too, please don’t be complacent or this might be you searching for a “lost” family friend!

NB with appaloosas you will need to get any freeze branding done to produce bare skin, like with greys, as if they do varnish out you won’t see it!

 

[251libby]

I'm looking a bit like a bad owner here! 3 and a half years ago when this happend, there was not so much fuss made about, passports, micro chips and signed agreements. But now all my horses, are micro chipped and all there pass ports are kept up to date, and if i ever were to put one out on loan again then i would get a solicitor to write up a proper legitimate contract.

 

[Gingernags]

No, you are not a bad owner, just a normal one.

I just don't want to be an "if only" owner - as in "if only" I'd marked or chipped - as you have now changed to.

Harsh lesson to learn sadly.

I really feel for people on here when their pride and joy is stolen, I just wish more people would realise how easy and worthwhile it is - especially those on the main shopping list - ie coloureds particularly - just spend the money to get them done, rather than have all the anguish afterwards!

In the scheme of things whats £100 compared to losing your horse to theives and what you spend trying to get them back?

 

[PcDavies]

I have recently investigated an incident where a horse was put on loan & then sold. I managed to locate & return the horse, even though the owner had no idea where it had gone. Enquiries are ongoing so I cannot divuldge any further details. Please dont moan about the police, I certainly took this matter seriously.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

Can we clone you PCDavies, we need some more like you out there, there are so many horse owners not knowing if their beloved companion has been mistreated, is alive or dead, or is a can of dog food.....

 

[Gingernags]

[ QUOTE ]
I have recently investigated an incident where a horse was put on loan & then sold. I managed to locate & return the horse, even though the owner had no idea where it had gone. Enquiries are ongoing so I cannot divuldge any further details. Please dont moan about the police, I certainly took this matter seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good on you for taking it seriously and doing something, but we do indeed need to clone you as you do seem to be in the minority. All too often people are saying they are just getting the "its a civil matter" reply from the police though.

Hopefully if you are successful in getting a prosecution it will be a double edged sword - a warning to unscrupulous "loanees" and encouragement for more forces to take action and investigate.

 

[DuckToller]

It is too late in the season now, but next spring you could keep an eye out for website photographs of mounted games/prince phillip cup competitions. There's not as many as show jumping and other disciplines, you would need to look on both MGA and PC websites to get dates, or ask around for when they are on. Depends how good a detective you are!