Putting a thoroughbred stallion to a pony mare

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mfay11

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Hi,

I was wondering if anybody could tell me if it was possible to put a 13.3h mare to a TB stallion? I've a pony mare as a companion for my horse and would like to breed from her.
 
Yep, totally possible as it is entirely the mare that controls the size of the foal during gestation, so the risk of foaling is no higher. A lot of people have done this to breed eventing ponies. AI would be the best way to breed her for obvious reasons- you don't want her getting squashed!
 
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Yep, totally possible as it is entirely the mare that controls the size of the foal during gestation, so the risk of foaling is no higher. A lot of people have done this to breed eventing ponies. AI would be the best way to breed her for obvious reasons- you don't want her getting squashed!

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I'm sorry, I don't buy that one little bit.

A friend had a baby last month, it was a big baby, small mother and the birth ended in an emergency caesarean. Same happens with horses only the outcome is usually not so successful.

I think the usual rule of thumb is stallion no more that 1 hand bigger than the mare, if mare is nice and roomy maybe you could push it a little bit more but not that much more...
 
You can, but I wouldn't. My mare is 13.1h and I put her to a 14.2h stallion, next choice is a 14.1h stallion. I am primarily trying to breed ponies, but I also didn't want to make extra complications.

As it was my filly was tiny when she was born and my girl had an easy delivery but I wonder if that would have been different to a bigger stallion.
 
It is possible, if you can find a small sprinter type sire. However more importantly what would you be hoping to produce? Is the mare successful showing wise and can be considered to have excellent conformation or does she have a long competitive history. Has she bred before, do you know what the outcome was like?
Have you consdered where you will put mare and foal and what you will do if she is protective and no longer a suitable companion for your horse? Beyond that have you looked ahead as to what you will do with the foal when weaned, are you breeding for yourself or to sell?

To summarise - it can be done, but that doesn't always mean it is a good idea
 
we lost a mare and foal this year because foal was to big to come out it was horrible .
the strange thing was that mare was 15hh and stallion was 13hh once foal had been taken out by 'c section' vets though it would have made 16 hh.
 
Thanks for all those, the mare has good bone and a pretty face but not great back legs. I'd like to breed something that would come up to the 15 hand mark but don't want to put the mare in any danger. She's a hardy wee thing though so if it was reasonably possible I would like to do it with her. I've no great ambitions to breed something fantastic, only a nice small riding horse, just so she earns her keep! Think I'll consult a vet but thank you all for your insightful suggestions.
 
It is possible, if you can find a small sprinter type sire. However more importantly what would you be hoping to produce? Is the mare successful showing wise and can be considered to have excellent conformation or does she have a long competitive history. Has she bred before, do you know what the outcome was like?
Have you consdered where you will put mare and foal and what you will do if she is protective and no longer a suitable companion for your horse? Beyond that have you looked ahead as to what you will do with the foal when weaned, are you breeding for yourself or to sell?

To summarise - it can be done, but that doesn't always mean it is a good idea

Just to reply to Turkey Dinner, don't know what she's bred before. She's a great temperment and so does my horse so I can't see there being any friction. Not necessarily breeding to sell, maybe a handy riding horse for myself or children.
 
Have you considered an Anglo-Arab or Shagya Arab. The Shagay stands at about 15.2hh and has at least 7.5 in of bone. Frozen semen is available in France. Look at www.harasdesgriottes.com the site is in English and French and I have used their stallion Tatianus.

Janet Spencer who owns the 17hh CB stallion Borderfame Prince Charming has crossed him successfully with a pony mare and produced a nice foal, she too claims that the mare decides the size of the foal. AI was used. Her website is www.coeend@aol.com.

There is a famous pony in Central Scotland known as Mr. Giddy, I believe that Princess Anne has met him. He is the result of a natural and illicit covering of a Shetland Pony by a Clydesdale Stallion - but please DONT ask me how the pair of them managed that!!
 
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Yep, totally possible as it is entirely the mare that controls the size of the foal during gestation, so the risk of foaling is no higher. A lot of people have done this to breed eventing ponies. AI would be the best way to breed her for obvious reasons- you don't want her getting squashed!

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Theoretically, mares can exert SOME control over the size of the foetus (although it's not intentional). The size of the foal is influenced by:
genetic factors;
nutrition;
the size of the mare's uterus;
the 'competence' of the placenta;
etc. etc.

But they don't do it very well! First, the problem is not the size of the foal in relation to the uterus - it's the size of the foal in relation to the birth canal/pelvis and how well (or not!) everything 'stretches' at foaling (so young mares usually have easier births - other things being equal which they often aren't!!)

The EASIEST way for a mare to give herself an easy birth is to foal early - and that creates other problems! I have one mare who always produces HUGE foals - and never gone beyond 325 days. I bring her onto foal watch at 320 days. This year she produced a big filly in the field overnight - at 317 days. THANKFULLY, the weather was kind and she got it right - it could have been a disaster.

Another mare foaled at 342 days and it took 90 minutes to get the foal out - thankfully alive - but the mare bled into the broad ligament and nearly died. And the stallion was smaller than her!!

Whenever you cross two 'extremes' (and pony and TB are 'extremes') the foal MIGHT be a nice mix, or it might be mainly pony - or mainly TB! Great long TB legs coming out of a pony mare might do untold damage!

Breeding is quite fraught enough with risks without increasing them. Breed type to type - and don't go more than 6 inches taller - especially if it's a first foal and/or the mare is older than usual for first foal.

At least you recognise the risks of using a larger stallion from the covering point of view!! I had one mare owner wanted to bring a 14.3 TB type mare to my 17HH - built like a brick outhouse - RID stallion!
shocked.gif
The tactful explanation of why it wasn't a good idea fell on deaf ears - so I said: Imagine your husband weighed 40 stone - would you fancy missionary position! THAT worked!
grin.gif
 
We have a TB stallion "Advise" who stands at 15.2hh and has covered a number of 13.2hh ponies with no problems whatsoever, both in doing the covering itself, or the pregnancy and giving birth. Stallion can be seen on our website.

One of the first foals we bred (many many years ago) was a 15hh mare to a 17.2hh Cleveland Bay. Foal was born very small, but now, some 20+++ years later, I've still got him and he stands 15.2hh himself.
 
We dont tend to accept anything below 13.2 for our small TB stallion and there havnt been any problems.
It does depend on the type of mare though and most of the 13.2's we have covered have been either Welshes or NF's.
We did AI a 13 hand welsh which wouldnt have been my choice but the owner wouldnt take no for an answer.
She foaled with no problem at all.
We covered a show cob mare 15.1 3/4 ID who popped out her first foal no problems but then the following year i got the distressing call that mare and foal had been lost foaling as the foal was too big.
So i'm not sure i have a feeling that if it is going to happen it will anyway.
 
usually would be better to put pony stallion to tb mare, my vets say that 2hand difference between mare and stallion should not cause a problem for mare and foal, but i too think if its gonna happen it will to whatever you but her to, do be careful not to overfeed as this will cause the foal to be too big. if her conformation is not great and you may want to sell it i personally wouldnt bother breeding from her, you might be lucky to have a good foal or you could end up with a rubbish foal with bad conformation and there are far too many ponies like that out there already that no one wants which really isnt fair.
 
Absolutely no offence intended here, and forgive me if I'm wrong about this, but tbh it sounds as though the mare has nothing more to recommend her as a breeding prospect than a pretty face, good bone and a nice temperament. And she has poor conformation (those back legs you mentioned).

For me, this really does not sound like a breeding-quality mare, although I'm sure she's a lovely companion pony.

I know you say you are just breeding a foal for yourself (although you seem to be considering the possibility of selling). But people's circumstances can and do change, and you might well end up having to sell the foal for one reason or another - especially if the group-dynamics with the other horse don't work out. They may get on fine now, but a foal can change things and create jealousies and so on.

Given that the mare does not sound like breeding quality (again, forgive me if I'm wrong), the best you will be likely to get is a mediocre foal that nobody will want (and you cannot guarantee that you will never have to sell it). There really are far too many mediocre ponies out there already, being shunted from pillar to post and ending up at ghastly auctions.

Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh. I may be wrong about the mare - I'm just going on your brief description. Could you perhaps post a photo or two of her?
 
Regarding back legs conformation, this will depend entirely on whether it was an heriditary problem or not. If the stallion is good enough anyway, he should always improve his mares.
 
Very true Penniless, but there is only so much that even a great stallion can do, and it is irresponsible IMO to breed from poor-quality mares.

This mare may be better than she sounds, of course - it would be great to see photos. But just on the information that we have, I would not accept her to my stallion.

JMO, of course! And again, no offence to the OP.
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The people I got her off had bought her as a show pony but were told her back legs weren't up to scratch. Personally I don't see to much wrong with them. I've also been told she's an ace cross country pony. If I was describe her a breed she definitely would have English moorland pony bloodlines.

I'm fortunately blessed with plenty of land so another addition to the family would be welcome and loved. I just have her as a pet and companion but reckon her and a thoroughbred stallion could make a nice little eventer but it would still be a roll of the dice and to be honest whatever I arrived I think I'd be hard pushed to part with it. I've never had to sell a horse and hopefully won't in the future!

It's only an idea in any case and I'm not going to proceed with it unless I've done sufficient research.

Cheers for all your comments!
 
I think I would put a TB mare to a pony stallion - but not vice-versa, sorry! Could you look into something like a 1/2 tb 1/2 pony stallion? There might be a few out there.

Also, and I don't mean to be rude here, but don't believe everything people tell you about horses! Can you/have you tried her under saddle? I would absolutely do this if I was thinking of breeding from a mare.
 
there are some good tb/pony stallions around, a friend of mine owns a tb x sec c stallion (picketspride country spider) and some of his stock have done very well for themselves.i def agree with htobago in reguards to not breeding from her if there is not a lot going for her as a broodmare.
 
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