Puzzled by symptoms in lame? horse

Fools Motto

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 June 2011
Messages
6,595
Visit site
Firstly, the vet is aware of everything and further investigations are happening, albeit slowly.
Secondly, I am not the owner but the horse is currently in my care. The owner, although very caring, can not keep throwing money investigating and we're all trying to help without adding to the bill.
The horse is a lovely 8 yr old 15.2 cob gelding, never had a days sickness prior to this. His long term friend came to us on sales livery. He was left on his own. 10 days later, he presented 'tied up', and would not walk. When forced it was a slow shuffled, stiff gait. Vet called, diagnosed laminitis, given bute. On vets advice it was agreed he could travel to us, for rehab. Got the stable well bedded (he had lived out 24/7), with a soaked haynet. He unloaded like a tank, walked perfectly and did all the cob things including barging out, and banging the door! We put this down to adrenaline, and the bute. We clipped him to make him happy (he was hairy and prone to sweating anyway). We have a sand turn out pen, of which we put him into for an hour twice a day. Walked fine. On day 4, after being in good form, he came in from the sand pen unable to move again. I swore blind he was suffering from a 'tying up episode'. His owner looked up everything to do with PSSM, we thought that was it! Vet called again, bloods taken, confirmed lamintis again... His legs swelling to tree trunks, back on bute twice a day, legs go down. He is suffering from mites, which is being addressed too, but he is constantly stamping and banging, and has clearly not laid down at all (dirty bugger and not a stain on him). Not once has he rocked back on his heels, not once has he stood all hunched up. He doesn't have a crest, he is quite the turbo cob! Came to us looking almost too lean. Picks up all 4 feet independently without issues.
Laminitis = box rest, but box rest = lymphatic over load (that's how I describe it). His fore leg has now completely blown up, and pus is now oozing out of his elbow where he had a scab and it's burst. His skin is tight and hot - no wonder he walks like a robot. We have to move him into the next doors stable to muck him out.
Tell me more about stress lamintis - his friend leaving ?
Lymphangitis - any symptoms that can be confused with any symptoms of lami?
His owner said he may have had access to a newly planted tree prior to this starting, and was concerned it was poisonous. I can not tell you what that is though. He's never been colicy yet, but I fear that could happen as he's clearly not well. Vet and farrier coming out tomorrow, but probably not at the same time because organisation and communication between the two is, well.... sigh.
This is going on too long already and it's going in the wrong direction I fear. If the vets (who are always amazing) say it's lami, then it is, BUT every little part of me is saying this is not how a normal lami horse presents... and our treatment for lami, is actually making it worse....
Please just throw some stories, ideas and advice my way!! Thanks.
 

stangs

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 September 2021
Messages
2,868
Visit site
It doesn’t sound like lymphangitis to me - lymphangitis ime only affects one hind, you wouldn’t have multiple swollen legs, and horse looks only a little less crippled than a horse with an abscess. But the ones I knew with lymphangitis were all also cobs with mites, and I’ve heard there may be a link between mites and lymphangitis?

Doesn’t sound much like lami to me either. If the vet’s insisting on box rest, I’d be thinking lots of massage and grooming to get the blood flowing as much as possible.

Good luck, hopefully he comes right soon xx
 

meleeka

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 September 2001
Messages
11,570
Location
Hants, England
Visit site
I wouldn’t have said laminitis either. It would be unusual to resolve as quickly as you are seeing. Fingers crossed the farrier can shed some light.
 

Melody Grey

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 April 2014
Messages
2,341
Visit site
Puzzling indeed. Has the vet listened to the horse’s heart? Is there any ventral oedema? ...I’ll admit, I’m clutching at straws!

an extreme reaction to the mites perhaps? Or some kind of toxicity introduced through them biting?
 

Equi

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 October 2010
Messages
14,540
Visit site
I would look more into CPL - Chronic Progressive Lymphedema

I would get his legs clipped to as short as you possibly can, cold hose them, get a spot on on him and give the legs a good wash with a dandruff shampoo. Keep the legs as short and clean as possible - this wil help the mites and any cpl.
 

SEL

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 February 2016
Messages
13,781
Location
Buckinghamshire
Visit site
My Ardennes has CPL and it flares up badly with lack of movement. On 24:7 turnout he has lumpy legs but no heat and no swelling. A flare up in the legs does compromise circulation in the hoof (or so my old trimmer believed) & I've had lameness and abcessing from that. In fact the worst abscess blew off a section of hoof wall and there was visible dead laminae when it did. So there could be a link with what you're seeing. If he's happy to walk around could he have longer on the sand turnout?

On the CPL Facebook page (v good) there is a lady who prepares lymphatic wraps and the results are astonishing - but it must be done under professional guidance.

Any idea what the blood results were? Vets can rule out type 1 PSSM because CK or AST aren't "high enough". They seem to think they should see a blood profile similar to a racehorse that ties up whereas most type 1s seem to only have moderately high results when they seize up. Coming on post exercise after a period in a stable is VERY common in PSSM. I dread box rest for that very reason - turnout, a gallop around and boom there's a wooden horse.

I would have thought eating a toxic tree would have shown up in the bloods by now - liver ok?
 

Highmileagecob

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 December 2021
Messages
2,838
Location
Wet and windy Pennines
Visit site
Can you possibly pair him with another buddy and arrange some turn out time together? He sounds as if stress has been the trigger, I think we underestimate the bond between horses at times - they really do seem to grieve.
A good selenium shampoo will sort out the mites without clipping, if you want to keep him in full feather. I use Selsun 2.5% and it keeps my hairy beast mite free.
 

Red-1

I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
Joined
7 February 2013
Messages
18,374
Location
Outstanding in my field!
Visit site
I had onw with lymphangitis in all 4 legs, to the point of splitting and oozing, when he had an allergy with nettlerash, and then the groom didn't turn him out, deciding to give him what she called a duvet day.

It was obvious that the inactivity meant his lymphatic system was overloaded. It took stacks of painkiller, antibiotics and forced walking to get him moving again.

It took months to be normal again, as in not swelling overnight any more, but he did make a full recovery.

I was only absent for 2 days, it was that quick from normal legs and slight nettle rash to total mess.
 

Annagain

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 December 2008
Messages
15,785
Visit site
The swollen legs, hot, tight skin and the oozing sores does sound like lymphangitis, my friend's horse suffered terribly with it and would get it in all four limbs at times, although it was mostly in his hind legs. I don't think it was ever in just one leg as Stangs suggested above but he was a TB and didn't suffer with mites so not like the cob presentation she mentions. I'd get him on some antibiotics asap and see if they help.
 

Fools Motto

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 June 2011
Messages
6,595
Visit site
Some good news, feet were x-rayed and no changes, so he can start hand walking and in turn go back out in the starve patch. His legs are clipped, I think the vet gave some lotion for us to use but it's my day off today, so can't tell you what it is! and he's now had a dectomax jab. Hopefully feeling better soon.
vet and farrier are both positive he'll make a full recovery and we may never know why he's presented like he has, he may never do this again. There has been further talk about an allergic reaction to something and it's just running it's course. Sigh.
 
Top