Q for YOs and liveries...

[minesadouble]

Hmmm, one of liveries has really annoyed me today.
We have a large (50+) DIY livery yard.
Along with our standard stables we have 5 extra large (enormous tbh) stables. Most of our liveries are ponies and of the large boxes 3 house 16hh-16.2hhs, 2 contain a few Shetlands living together and one houses a 15hander owned by 'livery A.'

One of our current livery owners (currently owns 4 horses - I'll call her Livery B) is going to look at a new horse which is 17.2hh, whilst I was chatting to her this morning she told me that the Livery A had said that if she were to buy the horse then she would have to move off as it wouldn't fit in any of her current stables!!

Now prior to this conversation I had planned on moving one of my 16.1s (who has a bigger stable) to accommodate the new horse and cause no upset. However, I now feel inclined to tell livery A that she has to move her 15hh as it is the smallest horse in the biggest stable as it would be the most sensible option and also to make the point that it is most definitely not for one livery to tell another that she should move off the yard!!
I haven't seen livery. A yet as she is at work.
As a YO what would you do?
As a livery how would you feel if asked to change stable to accommodate a bigger horse? Please also bear in mind that livery A does have another large stable where she keep a couple of Shetlands. She was also told at when she got the bigger stable for the 15hh that this was subject to the proviso that no one wants to move on with a 'big' horse who would need a bigger stable. However this conversation was 10 years ago and I think she may have 'forgotten' it.

Apologies if this sounds rather convoluted!!!

 

[Palindrome]

I think I would reinsure livery B that she'll have a big stable if she gets the horse and let it rest until livery B actually buys the horse. Then you can decide who is to move, ultimately the decision is yours. If livery A has been here 10 years she might be annoyed to have to move horse but ultimately she isn't paying extra for the extra space.

 

[Damnation]

You are the YO, so it is your decision and she has to accept it.

Me personally? The 15hh would move to accommodate the 17.2hh. You cannot argue with that logic, it is the most sensible thing to do. Why should your horse be in a smaller stable and it be on the small side when a 15hh would be more comfortable in it.

I have been asked to move stables previously to accommodate livery who would only go into my stable specifically (Fussy little madam)so I moved without question. Made no huge difference to me, YO's decision and the stable was a good size for my horse.

 

[Shavings]

I have before now been asked to give up my stable for a larger horse, i was more then happy to as at the time i owned a 15hh cob who lived out throw most things and only really ever came in when i felt bad about him being out, not because he would want in!
however i have seen on a yard and watched a livery be asked to move her 14'2hh to a smaller box to allow a 17'2hh to take the bigger one and she kicked up a stink , but in my eyes it is childish! who is cruel enough to expect a 17'2hh to curl up like a snake and fit in a tiny stable! it would cause real pain and discomfort for the horse!

if i was in your shoes i would speak to the liver which it looking at the big horse and ask her if she wants to go ahead with the buy to let you know and you will happily arrange some thing for her new large equine friend!

I would probably when the time came ask said livery with the 15hh to move it to a smaller box but you are quiet right she shouldn't have told other livery she will have to leave its not her place to at all and from being on livery yards and often being the "odd one out" on the yard i know how things like that can really be taken to heart

 

[Orca]

It makes perfect sense for the biggest horse to have the biggest stable. As a livery, I'd see that as rational even if I currently occupied the biggest stable.

It was wrong of livery A to tell livery B to leave under any circumstances but I wonder how that conversation came about? Is there any possibility livery B requested or even demanded the larger stable from livery A?

If I were livery A, although I'd be happy to hand 'my' stable over, I would like to hear that from my YO, along with the plan for where mine would go.

I wouldn't take livery A's stable to make a point. That seems a bit PA when a normal, mature discussion would probably straighten things out. However, it would be rational for you to take the larger stable for your larger horse. If you are going to take it, take it for the right reasons.

 

[Bertolie]

I've moved stables several times to accommodate bigger horses or the necessity for someone to have adjoining stables and it never bothered me. Not my yard so not my decision, however I probably would have refused if asked to move to a stable that wasn't suitable for my horse. OP how big are your standard stables?

 

[minesadouble]

Thanks everyone, Livery B is not viewing horse until tomorrow and is not taking any transport so I'm guessing even is decides to go ahead and buy the horse by the time it is vetted and transport arranged it will be next weekend before it arrives.

I told her this morning that we will definitely accommodate it and not to worry we will sort something out.

I know that she hasn't rubbed livery A up the wrong way by getting into a 'discussion' about stables as when I told her today we would either give our big box up or tell someone else to do so she was mortified and was saying she just didn't want to cause any trouble. I told her we would cross the bridge when we came to it and that she shouldn't lose any sleep over it as we would find a solution.

TBH there have been a couple of situations mentioned to me lately that had already given me some cause to think Livery A had been throwing her weight around a bit......

Oops ... Edited to add our standard stables are 11x12.

 

[Slightly Foxed]

I think you need to find out exactly who said what to whom, then have a word with Livery A if appropriate. From what you say, Livery A has been with you for 10 years, with no previous hassle? So is possible upset worth it? OTOH, Livery B has four horses with you, so possibly more lucrative?

You were going to move your horse anyway to accommodate the 17.2, if it were me I'd carry on with the original plan and move my horse.

Out of interest, what size are your small stables and how long are the horses in? My 17.3 lives perfectly happily for 10 hours a day (night) in a 12x12 and spends considerably longer than that in tiny stables when we're away jumping, which is fairly regular all year round.

 

[smellsofhorse]

It makes sense for the bigger house, if it is bought to get the bigger stables.
It's your yard and not for one livery do tell the other she will have to move.

However I do see it from the owner with the 15hh horses perspective in that she has had that stables for years, possibly made it "hers" with matting, haybar ect and also having the convenience and just "niceness" of having her stables and horses in stables next to each other.

 

[Equi]

My 17hh is in a stable 2ft smaller than the one a 14hh is in. Its infuriating to be honest.

 

[minesadouble]

I think you need to find out exactly who said what to whom, then have a word with Livery A if appropriate. From what you say, Livery A has been with you for 10 years, with no previous hassle? So is possible upset worth it? OTOH, Livery B has four horses with you, so possibly more lucrative?

You were going to move your horse anyway to accommodate the 17.2, if it were me I'd carry on with the original plan and move my horse.

Out of interest, what size are your small stables and how long are the horses in? My 17.3 lives perfectly happily for 10 hours a day (night) in a 12x12 and spends considerably longer than that in tiny stables when we're away jumping, which is fairly regular all year round.

I had a 17.1 who was also fine in a smaller stable too, I suppose it partially depends on the intelligence of the horse - I would hate it to come and get cast. It also just seems a bit silly to have. a 17.2+ in an 11x12 when we have a 15hh in a giant box.

Our 16.1 TB would be fine in a smaller stable but the sensible thing to do would be to move the 15 HH I feel. I must admit I feel more inclined to do it because of her sh**** attitude towards a fellow livery.

 

[Doublethyme]

Your yard, your decision. Just make sure you keep everything up front and in the open, which sounds like you plan to do.

If livery A already has another large box for a couple of Shetlands, it would irritate me as a fellow livery if I had a larger horse that had to put up with a smaller stable while livery a has two large stables for midgets and virtually a pony at 15hh.

Horse welfare has to be the primary consideration.

I had to do it to myself! Have one large stable, one standard. My old girl is only 15.3 but always had large stable. My youngster had std stable till she grew and grew and is not 16.3 and emotionally struggles more with stabling. Whilst I felt really bad ousting my old girl from the large stable, logic based on the actual needs of each horse dictated it was the right decision.

 

[gnubee]

Do you charge more for the big stables? If not then I wouldn't say that A has any right to expect to keep her 15hh in it, but suspect after 10 years she would be upset to be asked to move, particularly if she currently has 2 stables together. If she pays extra for her big stable however, I do thibk she would be entitled to expect that she can continue to receive the facilities she has been paying for.

 

[Wagtail]

Livery A is obviously worried she is going to be kicked out of her large stable hence the comment. Whilst it is annoying, these kinds of comments are bound to crop up from time to time in a large yard. I am a YO but of a much smaller yard. I have two extra large stables (16x12) and 3 12.5 x 12.5. The other three are standard 12x12. I always had my horses in the smallest stables and gave the best ones to my liveries. As a livery myself many years ago, I would have been gutted to have to move my horse out of a lovely big stable and into a much smaller one just because another livery, who might not have been there as long as me bought a huge horse. As a YO in your shoes, I would move one of my horses as originally planned and let it drop.

 

[skint1]

I am a livery and I recently made a right hash up in a similar vein and my tale is a perfect illustration of why liveries should not be able to make decisions about boxes and the like. I don't want to go into too much detail but it involved a friend wishing to return to the yard and some existing liveries (also friends) not happy about various options for their accommodation.

In hindsight, rather than trying to sort it myself I should have just referred all parties to the YM so that everyone could say their piece and YM could decide what to do. I made it a whole lot worse than it needed to be. It ended with the returning livery no longer speaking to me and I was lucky that everyone else was ok- I have learned my lesson, never again will I attempt to make back room decisions like that for any reason!

 

[JennBags]

I wonder if livery A knows that she could be asked to move if livery B buys a big horse, so was trying to put her off even asking for a space at the yard, hence trying to put her off?

 

[Makemineacob]

Personally I would take it all as though you don't know. If livery b buys the big horse then a straight forward conversation then needs to be had with livery a that she will be moving stables as previously advised when she first arrived. You're the YO. I once had a livery suggest that my 15hh could be moved so that she could have my 14ft x 15ft corner stable for her 15hh horse. I had to take deep breath and tell her politely no, that wasn't going to happen.

 

[Greylegs]

At our yard (I'm a livery, not the owner!) this sort of thing isn't open to debate. In the event that a bigger horse arrives and needs a bigger stable, then we just get moved, whether we like it or not!! The YO works out which horse is the best fit in which stable and bigger horses take precedence over the larger spaces. There is occasionally a bit of muttering when horses are moved, but generally everyone accepts that to be the way things are. YO's word is law ..... You get a text or phone call saying "We've moved Dobbin this morning. You're now in stable number X" and that's how it is. The worst part is that each stable has an allocated storage space and it's a bit of a faff to have to move your gear.

 

[Penny Less]

Big stables go to big horses. Im afraid I would tell Livery A that she will have to move, providing you are not asking her to put her 15hh in a shetland size stable ! If she was aware initially that she might have to give up her stable for a bigger horse, than I would say she has been lucky to have 10 years with a big stable !

 

[Slightly Foxed]

Interesting responses. Liveries are paying customers are they not? Some of you seem to be treated rather badly by your yard owners (not talking about you OP). But, for example, to be told that your horse has been moved without your knowledge or agreement seems a bit off to me.

 

[springtime1331]

I'm at a livery yard. If my YO asked me to move stables I'd just get on with it. Their yard, their rules etc.

 

[Luci07]

People do get possessive over "their" boxes so a little diplomacy can go a long way. Tbh, I would be miffed if a new livery just assumed I would lose my nice large box I have had for 10 years if she bought a big horse. I know there is no logic in this...its a purely emotional response. However, there is a long way between seeng a horse and said horse passing vet/viewings so it may never come up! If it does, it is your yard and I would approach the from the stance of doing what is best for the horses in question as no one can argue with that. And GS...giving up the best boxes to your liveries? I would not expect that of a YO!

 

[ihatework]

Ultimately it's your decision.
But if I had a good paying customer for 10 years I wouldn't be best impressed at loosing a prime box for a new horse arrival

 

[wills_91]

I would be annoyed to if I was YO. Livery A has no right to dictate what is going to happen. If both are paying the same price for a stable and if A is moving to a stable of adequate size then I don't see why she shouldn't move. Just out of wondering if she feels the need for 15hh to be in a big box could the shetlands not go into the 12 x 12?

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Hmmm, one of liveries has really annoyed me today.
We have a large (50+) DIY livery yard.
Along with our standard stables we have 5 extra large (enormous tbh) stables. Most of our liveries are ponies and of the large boxes 3 house 16hh-16.2hhs, 2 contain a few Shetlands living together and one houses a 15hander owned by 'livery A.'

One of our current livery owners (currently owns 4 horses - I'll call her Livery B) is going to look at a new horse which is 17.2hh, whilst I was chatting to her this morning she told me that the Livery A had said that if she were to buy the horse then she would have to move off as it wouldn't fit in any of her current stables!!

Now prior to this conversation I had planned on moving one of my 16.1s (who has a bigger stable) to accommodate the new horse and cause no upset. However, I now feel inclined to tell livery A that she has to move her 15hh as it is the smallest horse in the biggest stable as it would be the most sensible option and also to make the point that it is most definitely not for one livery to tell another that she should move off the yard!!
I haven't seen livery. A yet as she is at work.
As a YO what would you do?
As a livery how would you feel if asked to change stable to accommodate a bigger horse? Please also bear in mind that livery A does have another large stable where she keep a couple of Shetlands. She was also told at when she got the bigger stable for the 15hh that this was subject to the proviso that no one wants to move on with a 'big' horse who would need a bigger stable. However this conversation was 10 years ago and I think she may have 'forgotten' it.

Apologies if this sounds rather convoluted!!!

Ok


Here we have a variety of size stables 4 being 14 ft by 15ft so very big, we wont accommodate anything over 16.2(our reasons). We say only horses over 16hh have the big ones so this you have does not come up often, saying that we have two new livery horses moving in within the next few weeks, one being 15.3hh the other 14.2hh. The 15.3hh wanted the big stable and I said you can only move in to it IF the next horse is smaller ( which turns out it is ) so 15.3hh into large stable 14.2 into 12 x 12.


In future on your yard I would keep the large stables ONLY for horses exceeding say 16.hh or higher, that way this problem wont come up. The most sensible thing is move the 15hh horse to the smaller stable.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

As a YO, i have always stated that each livery (when i had them) would be provided with stable, storage and turnout.
I also emphasised that whist their storage would not be changed, the allocation of stable and turnout might well be changed at any time due to needs of weather or sizes of animals in.

OP, your yard, your choice. Can you accommodate A to have her stables adjacent when you move her?

 

[foxy1]

To be honest I'd feel very miffed if I was asked to move stables, after 10 years, to a smaller one. I don't see why my horse should be less comfortable to accommodate a horse that hasn't even been bought yet.

 

[scotlass]

Ultimately it's your decision.
But if I had a good paying customer for 10 years I wouldn't be best impressed at loosing a prime box for a new horse arrival

^^ This.

Move the shetlands

 

[indiat]

The last yard I was on it was written into the contracts that you had no right to demand a certain stable and that animals would be stabled at the YOs discretion. Sounds fair to me and cut off any arguments before they could even start.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I can understand how she would be annoyed at having to move after 10 years, but the reality is that she doesn't need such a large stable for a 15hh, and tough luck; what the YO decides, goes. I wouldn't be asking her to move until livery B's horse has passed the vetting though.

When I moved onto my yard with a 17.3 the YO moved her own two horses (had split stable as its 16x13) to accommodate Jake. I made it clear at the time that I would be happy with a standard stable, as they're fairly large, but am pleased that he gets lots of space. And if I were asked to move, then I would do without question.

At the same time though I would be really really annoyed if he was moved without me even being told first.