Quarter bruising on little feeties

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popularfurball

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Little pony has lovely feet - white line never flares, never has obvious event lines, can eat grass (well anything!) until the cows come home and it just doesn't touch his feet.

Its lovely having a pony who's feet aren't sensitive, but he does keep getting this bruising on the quarters.

He seems to build the quarters up (or rather, not wear them down) evenly compared to the rest of the foot. It is identical on all four feet.

Would be interested on causes and what you would do - meddle with excess quarters, or rasp them off weekly - yes it builds up that much! His white line doesn't seem to flare, but rather the wall gets thicker - its very strange.

I have had him 18months and its never changed in that time. He has his feet done every 6-8weeks by professional, and then I rasp them in between.

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These are last summer, this year his feet are in better shape - but still the bruising.
 
I'm afraid this looks dietary to me. :o There are ripples down the walls, long heels and with the reddening which is at the toe as well as quarters. I'd say the hoof is growing that way because of diet. Any evidence of thrush?
I am no expert though, but those hooves remind me of my pony who has diet related problems.
 
Ill get some newer pics tonight - I presumed it was dietary because its identical on all four - but not sure why.

Other pony is very sensitive so they are out with hay on bare field, with handful of speedibeet. He has access to a hilton herbs salt lick... and tried varied feeds (unmollassed chaffs, multivits, linseed, nat slimline etc) and nothing made any difference.
 
PS no need for :o I posted for advice - all advice great fully received :D

and yes his feet are thrushy much to my annoyance... though not "awful" I'm not happy with it.
 
Dietary and trim......

The multiple event lines are clear evidence of a more or less continual 'insult' this is usually dietary, but can also be seen when on long term medication. The horses that is...... although a few drinks might do it. :-)

Quarters need to be properly dressed. All horse feet have an arch to greater or lesser extent with the curve in the quarter (solar view). Dressing the wall properly in this area (sole angle, not the outside, never touch the outside) is a skill which I am coming to the view that few possess. Judging by the number of horses I see which have not had it done properly.

When viewed from the side and stood on concrete there will be a slight gap between the wall and the quarter. Size dependent on shape of arch. If you don't see a gap then either the work is not done properly or the horse has a more or less dropped sole or the sole is full of chalk etc etc etc

Look at the fourth photo in the spread (bottom right) in the attached, you should be able to see the slight gap.

http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/navicular-and-metabolic-10-weeks-3-days.html
 
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These are some from this summer - Its too grey to get photos today without a flash boo :(

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His feet are smaller than the palm of my hand, is it reasonable to put the extra gap in? He doesn't currently have that - is it more of a "wild trim" method?
 
A healthy foot has an arch, no matter how tiny (the foot or the arch).

It isn't a WHT method particularly although some would argue the case. My old (then young) farrier used to do this some 25 plus years ago, even for shod horses. Sadly the knowledge has been lost along the way. Or discarded in the face of a demand for the foot to be flush to the shoe for a neat look.

You can achieve this on tiny feet if you are prepared to take the time and have reasonable dexterity. Get someone who knows how to show you.

Then again if you can't find the arch you need to wonder if there is an issue; somewhere.
 
He wouldn't know what a shoe looked like if it hit him in the face!!!

He is trimmed by a trimmer not a farrier, so doesn't explain it.

His feet grow up, rather than flare out - he builds wall - to quite an extent.

At the moment I am taking the quarters down weekly to see if it make any difference - and win I tried to take pics tonight I thought they looked better - but it was dark!!!! He is never, and has never been foot sore, though he does have some ahem, interesting conformation and fun things like slipping stifles... He is very short striding because his hinds don't flex enough under him. Funny little creature.
 
OP - sorry, not being clear. The point I was making is not that a farrier trim or trimmer trim important, but that the skill involved has been lost to many.

I know a lot of trimmers who can't or don't do it or know nothing of it. Some schools just don't teach it.

Tin can or 'splat' foot also not quite the point, although actually easier to recognise the arch in a tin can provided the trimmer knows what to look for. The arch can drop out temporarily in a 'splat' foot until it is recovered.

A lot of horses have high (not dressed) quarters and don't go sore, it depends. I have done one that the slightest height and he was crippled. It varies hugely so soundness doesn't mean they are correct esp if they are discoloured.

Good luck with it all, hope you resolve any problems soon
 
Heheh nope - under no illusions that it is correct for his feet to have this bruising :D just baffled why after all this time still.

He usually self trims on 2hours road work (long lines) and a few hours of sand school a week (ridden or loose) - the last two Ive been poorly and the growth rate is evident.

Often advice is if they are self trimming to leave them well alone... but his bruise up worse if left?

Also (sorry for all these questions, not something in a "hoof book" - other pony has feet which I have to work really hard to keep from pancake-ing but its all text book metabolic problems) what kind of dietary issues cause bruising or is there nothing specific (eg. deficiencies or high sugars etc?)

He has had 24/7 lush grazing (though restricted as much as I could but never enough to control weight really) for 12months and now he is on hay with no grass and a silly bit of speedibeet with no change to this bruising?
 
popularfurball said:
He usually self trims on 2hours road work (long lines) and a few hours of sand school a week (ridden or loose) - the last two Ive been poorly and the growth rate is evident.

Often advice is if they are self trimming to leave them well alone... but his bruise up worse if left?

now he is on hay with no grass and a silly bit of speedibeet with no change to this bruising?
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I am sure there are dietary issues which are causal factors for bruising, but it is not something which I am aware has much research or strong evidence behind it.

With the shetlands and minis that tin can it can be hard to get them to self trim properly/adequately. If they are ridden and/or driven a fair few miles daily maybe.

The only tin can on the books that mostly self trims is an advanced endurance horse hitting 80km in regular competition. Most just don't work hard enough.

The rest can often look like they have brought the wall down to the correct height, but actually they are packing a lot of compacted sole which can be misleading. I am sure you are aware of this, but it's worth mentioning as this is a forum.
 
popularfurball said:
He has had 24/7 lush grazing (though restricted as much as I could but never enough to control weight really) for 12months and now he is on hay with no grass and a silly bit of speedibeet with no change to this bruising?
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Do you soak and rinse his hay? I would try it if you don't. Also add salt and magnesium in his beet if you don't. It might be worth looking at other minerals too.
My pony is much better atm and doesn't have any redness at all. She has had bouts of acute laminitis which usually is accompanied by thrush. I treated her thrush with soaks of weak milton solution (one tab to a gallon) as it was severe. Many don't recommend this but I've found it works well in severe or resistant thrush. If thrush is slight I use apple cider vinegar solution soaks. I soak three times a week for about 20 mins and then switch to spraying daily when hooves have been cleaned. Clearing thrush seems to be a big help in enabling her heels to shorten.
I'm off to hide before I'm told off for milton use. Cleantrax may be a better soak to use in severe thrush as it is supposed to be non damaging to live tissue.
Old car inner tubes are great for soaking boots for littluns.
 
Workmen and tools. No telling off but the trouble with Milton is that it is essential to a) dilute sufficiently and b) only use infrequently both of which you are doing.

But I have seen a frog burnt off by inappropriate use of this product. Not nice.
 
LucyPriory said:
Workmen and tools. No telling off but the trouble with Milton is that it is essential to a) dilute sufficiently and b) only use infrequently both of which you are doing.

But I have seen a frog burnt off by inappropriate use of this product. Not nice.
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Phew.
Yes milton is BLEACH so must be used with great care if used at all.
Gosh that must have been so painful. :( Best to stick to cleantrax, apple cider vinegar or salt solution.
 
What about keratex disinfectant?

I got pics :D and with light it was more obvious lol

Rasped hind (by me uhoh!)
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Unrasped fore (unrasped for a week)

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I think they show quite well the way the wall thickens more than it flares - Bigger ponies feet the white line separates so quickly and flares compared to his that get "thicker"

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He still isn't great at having his feet handled - so we do a foot a day (or now its dark over two days. So essentially he has his feet rasped most days, though works out about once a week to keep on top of it while he isn't working as much.
 
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So cute! :D I love littluns.

The thrush isn't as bad as I imagined so I'm sure sudocreme will do the trick. You need to scrub first (salt water or apple cider vinegar solution) then dry as best you can before applying. Then work deep into the central sulcus and grooves. I do use it myself. :D
I've no experience of keratex disinfectant I'm afraid. What's in it?

ps. It might be worth checking his fat score and tighten his diet.Another reason to soak hay if you don't already.
 
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Mmhmm his fat score isn't bad - but he Is out (muzzled) on mister green fOr a couple of weeks to keep a sheep company (and get weight on my welsh pony for wInter.

He has problems With bloating - he has no idea how to get rid of as :o lol. Starting him on some pro-pre biotics to see if it helps. In terms of fat he has some extra on neck and behind his shoulder but ribs easily felt an spine and tail head.

I have lots of sudocrem so I shall get sudocreming :D

Would you just be rasping off the edges where it grows out or is this most likely to be diet (odd the gap in the brusiaing too which I hadn't noticed before pics-not sure what was different though... Diet been stable for 10 months until one week ago.
 
popularfurball said:
Mmhmm his fat score isn't bad - but he Is out (muzzled) on mister green fOr a couple of weeks to keep a sheep company (and get weight on my welsh pony for wInter.
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He just looks, as you say, cresty and I can't see any shoulder definition but he is fluffy. lol

popularfurball said:
Would you just be rasping off the edges where it grows out or is this most likely to be diet (odd the gap in the brusiaing too which I hadn't noticed before pics-not sure what was different though... Diet been stable for 10 months until one week ago.
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I can't comment on rasping, I'm not a trimmer just an owner.It might be worth getting an experienced trimmer out to see him and then you could take it from there.

To be a stuck record, do soak his hay (if you don't) the farting I've learned can be a sign of gut upset so a probiotic is a good idea along with getting sugars as low as you can.
 
we find the bruiseing with some rescues we get it.
it can b caused by uneven wear but it can be caused by unbalanced additives.
the only supplement we feed esp to the minis is equilibra 500 (minis get 1/2 a maug a day)/( works ut at 12p daily).
we have found after a month or so u can start to c better hoofgrowth and after 6mnths the feet are load better with more level growth and no growth rings etc
 
He started equilibra last night!!

He is seen every eight weeks by a trimmer - she is confused by it too - and her only option left was the way he moves (he loads the outside of his foot first).

He is very hairy much to my annoyance!

Am I missing the point on white line stuff (my other pony is prone to an obvious one as she is growing out some steroids) I don't think his is stretched? Infact i spent a while wondering if he had one!
 
popularfurball said:
He is seen every eight weeks by a trimmer - she is confused by it too - and her only option left was the way he moves (he loads the outside of his foot first).
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Doh! lol. Perhaps mention LucyPriory's point about attention to the quarters in the trim.
popularfurball said:
Am I missing the point on white line stuff (my other pony is prone to an obvious one as she is growing out some steroids) I don't think his is stretched? Infact i spent a while wondering if he had one!
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Doesn't look stretched to me. However I am wondering about the sole view too. Is the sole compacted? I don't know enough I'm afraid. Perhaps get your trimmer to explain in detail.
I just wondered looking at the pic of him in harness. He looks to be bending at the knee. Is he what they call "over at the knee" or could he be relieving weight on his heels? I just wonder if that stance is a clue to something in his hooves.


Good luck with the equilibra.
 
popularfurball said:
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Re the white line. I'm far from sure but I think the white line is the black line in the second pic and at the edge of the sole in the first pic where the true sole joins the whiter area before the wall. If so there may be some separation. Ask your trimmer to clarify exactly what's what. You need to look carefully to see the whiter areas running next to the wall I'm talking about. Just thinking out loud here. :) It is hard to see clearly as you say.
 
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