Quarters in and incorrect bend... exercises to correct??

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Ginn

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Pretty much as title ^^^

After 6 weeks of light/no exercise madam has slipped back into her 'I cannot possibly go straight on the right rein and instead will throw my back end at you and motorbike' habit where she has lost fitness, muscle and balance.

Everything recently checked - it is just her natural weakness so needs carefully correcting and building up again.

In the past have worked on straightness, SI, LY both hacking and schooling to correct but could do with some more ideas...
 
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You are on the right track, add demi P to your list and get real control of the shoulders.

Not being straight is a lack of suppleness so increase circles, loops, serpentines and changes of rein to improve lateral suppleness and also transitions between and within paces to improve longitudinal suppleness. When balance improves with increased activity the lateral suppleness will impriove too as the horse is better able to bring hind legs under more.

If you suspect any muscle problems an active body brushing for 45mins each day will help massage the muscles.
 
over exaggerate your own position, lean heavily on your outside hip/foot going around a corner - do sitting trot and twist yourself as far as you can in the right direction (it's easier to show, than tell what I mean!). I've found this works quite well, but like they say "your mileage may vary"
 
i'd work her in walk circles, down to about 6-8m and then gently spiralling out, always asking softly for her to give at the ribs to your leg (i suspect that's what she's refusing to do, she's solidifying her ribcage against your inside leg and going like a plank instead of bending and allowing your leg aid 'in'?) i'd use an open inside rein aid, maintain your upright even posture absolutely (slightly more weight on inside seatbone and stirrup if anything. if you do as Pitch Black says i think you'll just be twisting yourself and giving her conflicting aids tbh, and a good excuse to have a strop?!)
figures of 8 so she gets praise for doing it on her easy side, then is asked again on her difficult side, until the penny drops that there's no pressure, that you're asking something very little very nicely. shoulder-fore on a circle, leg yield on a circle (front legs doing a small circle, hind legs doing a bigger one) until she gets the idea.
umm, turn on the forehand both ways, so she gets the idea of stepping across with inside hind. contra-shoulder-in both ways is invaluable too.
hope that helps!
 
Pitch Black said:
over exaggerate your own position, lean heavily on your outside hip/foot going around a corner - do sitting trot and twist yourself as far as you can in the right direction (it's easier to show, than tell what I mean!). I've found this works quite well, but like they say "your mileage may vary"
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I would be careful of doing that. As we all know horses try to get us to ride them in a certain way which is easier for them and not always the best way. I have seen riders doing that to compensate what their horse is doing and all that happens is the original problem worsens.

The one thing I do find helpful as a reminder when riding a horse who is doing their level best to make you ride in an unbalanced fashion is to simply kick off your stirrups every now and then to make sure you are sitting equally on both seatbones then back to work again.

And just to keep the sessions short as she is building herself up again. I am currently somewhat stiff after extending my dogs walk to include more hill walking. They think its great. I, on the other hand, now have a backside which feels like someone has kicked it very VERY hard!!
 
Luci07 said:
I would be careful of doing that. As we all know horses try to get us to ride them in a certain way which is easier for them and not always the best way. I have seen riders doing that to compensate what their horse is doing and all that happens is the original problem worsens.
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I did say "your mileage may vary" the technique worked for me and corrected a problem I was having.
 
I would be very careful not to compromise your position just because she is compromising hers.

If you are absolutely 100% sure that there is nothing physically wrong that is causing her to do this, then I would work on maintaining your own absolutely correct position and application of the aids, with the aim of getting her to accept you in that position. If you start sitting oddly and giving her "wrong" aids in an attempt to correct her way of going, you are effectively teaching her that that is the way she has to carry you and that is the aid you are going to use. Her acceptance of your (correct) position is the fundamental starting point of any training.

Is this problem happening in all gaits or is it worse one way in walk/trot and worse the other way in canter?
 
Rowreach said:
I would be very careful not to compromise your position just because she is compromising hers.

If you are absolutely 100% sure that there is nothing physically wrong that is causing her to do this, then I would work on maintaining your own absolutely correct position and application of the aids, with the aim of getting her to accept you in that position. If you start sitting oddly and giving her "wrong" aids in an attempt to correct her way of going, you are effectively teaching her that that is the way she has to carry you and that is the aid you are going to use. Her acceptance of your (correct) position is the fundamental starting point of any training.
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Yes, exactly. Like Like Like. She doesn't get to alter you, however difficult she is finding it.
 
Dont think of it as quarters in but falling through the shoulder...this is where you make the correction.

They are all one sided. So to help supple and encourage your horse to carry themselves straight, you want to start with the rein opposite to the shoulders falling out. For this instance just say the left shoulder.

So start on the right rein. Brink your horses head and neck around to the inside - using just the inside rein for this is okay to help them get it. Keep the horse working straight from the neck back. So the body is straight and the neck and head is turned at an angle to the inside. Ride forward around the school pushing your horse out through the left shoulder (the easy shoulder).

Now do the same on the opposite rein. This will be much much harder and your horse may even prefer to shoulder in rather than bend to the inside. Ride forwards and push through the outside shoulder.

Gradually do this picking up the reins and going straight on the short side. Do frequent changes of rein....then ride straight.

The back end will follow
 
Important to remember that the horse has had only very light work over the past 6 weeks so some of her suppleness/fitness will havge gone - small circles will cause muscle soreness and won't help the situatioin. Starting large and reduceing circle size as fitness and suppleness return will have a better result.
 
On a similar note to the above, a great deal of work can be done in walk, even on a long rein. I often see horses where the people say, "Oh, he just gets crooked in the canter," when in fact the horse isn't straight, ever, but it's only very obvious in the canter because it's not a bilateral gait.

Some of it (please don't take this the wrong way!) is attention to detail. Does she want off straight EVERY time? Can you get her to walk off with either foot? If you put a rail on the ground can you get her to step over it with either front foot first? Can you do the same thing coming to the rail on an angle/in a circle? (This is a FANTASTIC exercise for all sorts of things and much more difficult than it sounds.) When you walk on a loose rein in the school does she fall against the wall/wander? When you pick up one rein to turn does she turn exactly the same way, with the same amount of pressure, in both directions, or does she head tilt/resist/lean in etc.? Can you get her to "square turn" both directions from the seat on a long rein, keeping her body straight? Can you move her shoulders a step either way in halt? (Another very important, deceptively simple exercise.) Then you move on to the "dressage" movements but again, they are only really effective if the emphasis is on correctness and attention to detail. It's quite possible for a horse to do lateral work that looks kinda, sorta okay without actually being straight and balanced. Even then, it WILL help to some extent but it's easier in the long run to do less but correctly and build on that.

All these sorts of exercises and checks (there are more) build a horse up, both in strength and suppleness and in their proprioception, without stressing with speed. It's like going to the gym - slow, CORRECT, isometric/resistance training (pilates etc.) is the most effective, least stressful way to build basic fitness. This is EXACTLY what dressage is. The problem is it's boring and doesn't make onlookers go "oooh". ;)
 
TarrSteps said:
Some of it (please don't take this the wrong way!) is attention to detail. Does she want off straight EVERY time? Can you get her to walk off with either foot? If you put a rail on the ground can you get her to step over it with either front foot first? Can you do the same thing coming to the rail on an angle/in a circle? (This is a FANTASTIC exercise for all sorts of things and much more difficult than it sounds.) When you walk on a loose rein in the school does she fall against the wall/wander? When you pick up one rein to turn does she turn exactly the same way, with the same amount of pressure, in both directions, or does she head tilt/resist/lean in etc.? Can you get her to "square turn" both directions from the seat on a long rein, keeping her body straight? Can you move her shoulders a step either way in halt? (Another very important, deceptively simple exercise.) Then you move on to the "dressage" movements but again, they are only really effective if the emphasis is on correctness and attention to detail. It's quite possible for a horse to do lateral work that looks kinda, sorta okay without actually being straight and balanced. Even then, it WILL help to some extent but it's easier in the long run to do less but correctly and build on that.QUOTE]

I have similar problems with my 5yr old mare. She pops out of the right shoulder and does not bend through the ribs from the left leg. We have been doing lots of work on this and doing many of the exercises mentioned above. She is in work and fit so can push on and work on this. She is gradually getting better.

I also have to be VERY careful to ride straight and even as mentioned and not let her make me lobsided to match - very difficult!!!

However I REALLY like the sound of some of the exercises Tarrsteps has mentioned above in walk. Any tips of actually carrying some of them out would be really appreciated!!!

I would think if we all sat down and thought about it that most if not all horses are like this, the degree will depend on the individual horse and level of training.............?
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I am following this thread with interest as my boy will always go 1/4s in in canter but add it a serious head tilt issue and it makes it all rather dificult! (all standard checks done every few months and I was having regular training but haven't had a flat lesson since July to problems have crept back).
 
Wow, some really great advice and very, very much appreciated. Tarsteps - I think you have hit a few key points as straightness has always been a weakness (more so schooling than hacking) and definitely affects her suppleness, straightness, transitions etc. Staying in walk sounds like a great plan (especially as it is something I can do afterwork, in the field, in the dark - unlike hacking!) and is probably why this is a reoccuring issue - its never truely been corrected before moving on. I think it is too easy to work on aerobic fitness but forget about the proprioception, balance, strength on such a fundamental level and instead horses get stronger and the problems get "masked" for want of a better word. It will also allow me to work on me! I think some stirrupless and possibly even bareback work would tie in nicely with some of the exercises described above.

Some other great ideas from others which as her fitness and strength improves I will definitely be doing :)

Tarsteps, as F_09 and horsemad said - how exactly would you as a rider specifically ask for some of those things (e.g. stepping forward from halt with a specific foreleg - my thinking is by asking the corresponding hind to engage to initiate the stride?) Also, any of your other exercises (walk and beyond!) would be appreciated!
 
Not quite solving your issues but I have put two things I do below to help with straightness and suppleness that you might find useful to build on as they start very basic and build up as your horse gets better.

I have been told to to build a square with poles on the straight bits and I have to ride between them to maintain my accuracy and as we get better to make them narrower and narrower with the ultimate aim to be able to ride between them in canter. I have been told this will take a while and I need to start in walk!!

I find a box built out of poles really useful for falling in and out and in particular controlling the shoulders and improving suppleness. The ultimate aim is they should be able to stay inside the box on both reins with bend inside or outside. I found on my last horse it made a huge difference to his understanding of what was needed and released his shoulders up through increased suppleness and in my ability to sort out the issues when they cropped up quicker. If you put a cone in the middle it really helps you spot where you fall in.
 
Hmmm I have a new instructor and she has pointed out that my horse is not bending correctly and leaning too heavily to her outside shoulders, as a previous poster has described yours. She has suggested I work my mare in hand to correct it asking her to give the correct bend at the poll (possibly TMJ but I'm not 100%, only had one lesson on this) without leaning her shoulder into me. It might be worth looking into in hand work and either having a lesson on it or perhaps someone will be along who can explain it better than me as when my instructor worked mine in hand there was a big difference in just 15 minutes in walk :)
 
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