Query about warming up

Mule

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I warm up by walking on a loose rein for 10 mins. Then I pick up a contact and do suppling work to engage the beast's inside hind leg. Once he is supple and engaged he takes the contact and carries himself correctly. Until then he giraffes. I think that's normal?

I've noticed other people pick up the contact and the horse immediately comes into a flexed position. The horse isn't working through its body until they warm it up, but it isn't giraffing either.

I'm curious about how people on the forum warm up. Does your horse giraffe until his body is supple or does it flex straight away? Does it just depend on the horse?
 

ihatework

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They are all different to some extent as to the optimal way to warm up, but none of mine have ‘giraffed’ when picking up the contact straight away.
 

milliepops

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No giraffing here either.

mine go on a contact straight away, over the years some have started out with more stretching but current one is best if she's worked up to the bit from the start. I have found with her it's best to do quite a bit of *work* in walk at the beginning, so she is active walking on my aids, I usually do walk piris at the start to install control, obedience to the aids and activity and then we trot off for a more traditional warm up in basic working trot before getting stuck in.
 

Mule

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No giraffing here either.

mine go on a contact straight away, over the years some have started out with more stretching but current one is best if she's worked up to the bit from the start. I have found with her it's best to do quite a bit of *work* in walk at the beginning, so she is active walking on my aids, I usually do walk piris at the start to install control, obedience to the aids and activity and then we trot off for a more traditional warm up in basic working trot before getting stuck in.
Hmm I wonder am I doing something wrong?
 

milliepops

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How do I phrase this... I just wouldn't allow Kira to giraffe...? it's not in our vocabulary for her ridden work. She has to start *on the bit* at the very least, the work throughout the session is then developing throughness and suppleness and all that good stuff.

ETA. Slight exception. I have learnt with trainer that when we are teaching her something really hard in collection or sitting then she has to be allowed to come above the bit a little, as a transition phase - but that's a temporary bargain with her. So when she started half steps or canter piris the bargain struck was "you try as hard as you can and we'll address the *outline* later". But for basic working in that's not something I'd do, that's more about keeping her brain happy while she figures out the rest of her body.
 

Cortez

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No, no giraffes here either. Unfortunately most Irish horses are not broken in with much finesse and a rational reaction to pressure on the reins is not often found.
 

milliepops

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OP do you feel that he is giraffing as a reaction to the feeling of the contact or because he's basically gone self employed until you do enough work to get him focused?
 

PapaverFollis

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We can't do loose rein to start round here... life is too exciting! Lol. So walk on a longer rein but with a contact for 5-10 mins, then start halt transitions and circles which bring her weight back a bit and reins get gradually shortened to match. The contact develops over that period of walk work. But she's pretty much soft from the off, no giraffing anyway. But I'd say it took done work to get there.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment further. But that's our warm up.
 

be positive

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None here either, although I do see it in some it is something I would work on to avoid as there is no benefit from a horse going round incorrectly in the warm up, or at any time, if they are not used to working from when you pick up the contact then I would gradually expect more rather than accepting it is something they do and making allowances for it, they will learn it is better to start properly if you can find the key to changing them.

I find the giraffes are often best being allowed more stretching in the cool down and that it will then transfer to the warm up if you are consistent in your approach.
 

MissTyc

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I warm up with flexions in a contact. The contact would be longer and lower than a working contact, but I feel them rise under me and lift as they get warmer.
Certainly I'd expect my horse to be able to do a Prelim test straight off the box without any other warmup and, while being ridden sympathetically (not hoiked or forced), produce decent scores. Just like I expect to be able to run for the bus and vault over a few recycling bins without warming up for it first ;).
 

Mule

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OP do you feel that he is giraffing as a reaction to the feeling of the contact or because he's basically gone self employed until you do enough work to get him focused?
Definitely because he's gone self employed. Also, I think it may be related to what Cortez said. Before I got him he was severely sawed on to the bit. Then I used to fiddle to get him on the bit. So he didn't have a good relationship with contact.

I now don't do anything with the reins except hold them until he's comes in to an outline with suppling exercises.

When he comes round I will use my inside leg with a touch of my outside ring finger if I feel him lean on the reins. Perhaps he giraffes because I am putting no pressure on the reins?
 

Otherwise

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With my old boy I found if I started off all long reins and stretchy I'd have giraffe arguments when I picked the reins up, if I started as I meant to go on with more contact and straight into walk work we were both much happier.
 

Hallo2012

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No giraffes here.

even in the very first stage of the warm up there needs to be *some* contact for him to reach for, to stretch too.

the rein may be longer, the frame lower and the whole picture *looser* than the more collected phase but it must be there.
 

milliepops

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No giraffes here.

even in the very first stage of the warm up there needs to be *some* contact for him to reach for, to stretch too.

the rein may be longer, the frame lower and the whole picture *looser* than the more collected phase but it must be there.
This

I think you need to make sure you're present on the other end of the reins, OP :) as BP said it's not really helpful for him to be bimbling around in his own little world, if you can train them to expect to be working more-or-less correctly from the start then it's easier on them, they develop more quickly as there's more consistency to your training.
 

Mule

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No, no giraffes here either. Unfortunately most Irish horses are not broken in with much finesse and a rational reaction to pressure on the reins is not often found.
That's a big part of it. He's had very tough rein contact in the past (former owner) and I've fiddled with them. All I do with them now is hold a steady contact until he comes round and then do the bare minimum with them.
 

Mule

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This

I think you need to make sure you're present on the other end of the reins, OP :) as BP said it's not really helpful for him to be bimbling around in his own little world, if you can train them to expect to be working more-or-less correctly from the start then it's easier on them, they develop more quickly as there's more consistency to your training.
Should I ask for a bit of flexion with my inside leg and outside rein from the start?(without getting handsy)
 

milliepops

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now you've figured out that you need to stop fiddling with the reins, do you think you're a bit afraid of *using* them now?
I'm only asking as I have helped a friend stop fiddling and she went through a slightly paralysed phase where she didn't want to touch the reins in case she went back to fiddling ;)
it is sometimes important to use them and you CAN do that without going backwards :)
 

Mule

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Ooh
now you've figured out that you need to stop fiddling with the reins, do you think you're a bit afraid of *using* them now?
I'm only asking as I have helped a friend stop fiddling and she went through a slightly paralysed phase where she didn't want to touch the reins in case she went back to fiddling ;)
it is sometimes important to use them and you CAN do that without going backwards :)
Yes definitely. I've a horror of going back to where we were. We were arguing rather than working together.
 

be positive

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Should I ask for a bit of flexion with my inside leg and outside rein from the start?(without getting handsy)

You have to ask for something otherwise he has no idea you want anything other than what he is doing, I am not too bothered if they are a little heavy to start with as they should lighten up as they warm up and lift their frame, often lightness is confused with having nothing in the hand, I possibly like mine to take more of a hold than some riders do but I do not like the feeling of nothing at the end of the rein unless they are on a loose, not long, rein.
 

milliepops

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Totally agree with BP, sometimes they start out heavier, sometimes lighter but you need to have a connection in order to be able to improve or develop what you are starting with.

So the trick is to work out how to use your contact without going back to square one, and you can do that. What happens if you just take up the contact evenly in both hands and then just go to work? Don't be afraid to try ;)
 

Mule

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Totally agree with BP, sometimes they start out heavier, sometimes lighter but you need to have a connection in order to be able to improve or develop what you are starting with.

So the trick is to work out how to use your contact without going back to square one, and you can do that. What happens if you just take up the contact evenly in both hands and then just go to work? Don't be afraid to try ;)
When I take up the rein contact he giraffes. When I go from loose reins to a contact he automatically giraffes. It's basically when I shorten my reins.
 

milliepops

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what would happen if you quietly kept the contact asking a little more firmly for him to yield to it? not seesawing, but more like passive resistance?
Can you do that on the ground? does he giraffe then or does he yield?
 

Mule

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what would happen if you quietly kept the contact asking a little more firmly for him to yield to it? not seesawing, but more like passive resistance?
Can you do that on the ground? does he giraffe then or does he yield?
He was actually reacting nicely to this when I first stopped fiddling and tried this. Then he stopped yielding and I used more rein pressure and he went back to popping his head up.
 

milliepops

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He was actually reacting nicely to this when I first stopped fiddling and tried this. Then he stopped yielding and I used more rein pressure and he went back to popping his head up.
without seeing or feeling what's happening I would tend to say that in this case I'd actively use the rein (i.e. move the contact deliberately) to ask him to yield to it.
He has to learn not to set against your hand and you have to figure out how to do that without fiddling him off it. Quite often people fiddle their horses behind the bit so they feel like they are light in the hand, but in fact they simply aren't in the contact - it's just the opposite side of the same coin, as those horses that go above the bit ;)
 

Mule

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without seeing or feeling what's happening I would tend to say that in this case I'd actively use the rein (i.e. move the contact deliberately) to ask him to yield to it.
He has to learn not to set against your hand and you have to figure out how to do that without fiddling him off it. Quite often people fiddle their horses behind the bit so they feel like they are light in the hand, but in fact they simply aren't in the contact - it's just the opposite side of the same coin, as those horses that go above the bit ;)
Ok, I will try this, thank you :) I'll give updates.
 

be positive

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When I take up the rein contact he giraffes. When I go from loose reins to a contact he automatically giraffes. It's basically when I shorten my reins.

It is the loose rein that is your problem, mine would rarely have a loose rein, they start work on a long rein in varying degrees depending on the individual, then gradually pick them up, a few breaks to stretch on a long rein and only when they have finished would they get a completely loose rein after they have cooled down properly.
 

Mule

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It is the loose rein that is your problem, mine would rarely have a loose rein, they start work on a long rein in varying degrees depending on the individual, then gradually pick them up, a few breaks to stretch on a long rein and only when they have finished would they get a completely loose rein after they have cooled down properly.
That's interesting. I go from loose reins straight to short reins instead of picking them up gradually. I wonder is that a bad idea?
 

be positive

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That's interesting. I go from loose reins straight to short reins instead of picking them up gradually. I wonder is that a bad idea?

It will be fine for some but in my experience it can make a horse tense because they know work is starting, my view is that work starts from when I get on, it may be easy initially but is still work, then rather than a 'lets get on with it transition' the work intensity increases from setting off, the reins gradually shorten and more is asked of them, they have 23 hours a day wandering about doing nothing so if an hour of work is expected of them they can at least be cooperative from the start.
As I said before loose reins are for the end not the start, they can still stretch on a long rein but not have total freedom to do what they want, it is all constructive in some way.
 

milliepops

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totally agree with BP here :) I would try cracking on with slightly higher expectations as soon as you get into the saddle.
 
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