Question #4 for LACS

[Ereiam_jh]

Is hunting as not defined by the Act confined to just those activities which involve the killing of wild animals?

 

[LACS]

Stag hunting is hunting. You know, the activity you think is cruel but still support.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I think I said I didn't support what I saw on that video.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Any way I'm going to chase deer with dogs this weekend. Your the PR officer for an AR organisation etc etc. Are you going to do any thing about it?

Can I chase a deer legally, is that hunting or not?

The law says flushing out is hunting but you say that is just wrong.

 

[LACS]

Do you support stag hunting?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I certainly support my right to flush out and chase deer and that's exactly what I am going to do this weekend.

As for Stag Hunting that should be regulated on the basis of a legally defined definition of cruelty.

The government say searching for a deer with dogs is hunting. Do you think that should be banned?

 

[LACS]

Do you support stag hunting? It's a simple question. The sky won't fall in if you say you do or you don't. For a poser of so many questions you're conspicuously reticent about answering them.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I support staghunting.

I didn't support what I saw in the video.

I don't support cruelty.

You yourself are fine about some forms of hunting but not others our positions aren't so disimilar.

 

[LACS]

"I support staghunting."

"I don't support cruelty."

Staghunting is "cruel": Tom Faggus.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

"Stag hunting can be cruel": Giles

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Where I think you've got a problem with what I am saying is the idea that SOME hunting is cruel but not ALL.

The Hunting Act should only ban what is cruel. It doesn't. Searching and flushing are not cruel as you yourself accept.

Why are they banned?

Is it because of the difficulty in proving cruelty?

 

[LACS]

I've answered this many times now. You're not hunting with dogs.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Brilliant so I can chase deer with my dogs as much as I like.

Mr PR man for an International etc. Can't do anything to stop people setting dogs on wild animals.

Defra say that searching is hunting, that's because one of the ordinary english meanings of to hunt is to search. You completely disagree with the Governments interpretation of the law. Of course it's totally clear. It's just that no one has a clue what it is.

 

[LACS]

Why assume I'm a man? I could be a woman.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Mr or Mrs PR man then.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Or Ms

 

[wurzel]

I support Stag hunting.

In fact, I am going tomorrow !!!

Its a cruel world out here.

Have you heard a rabbit caught by a Stoat.

Thats cruel !!


I sometimes snare foxes in accordance with DEFRA guidelines. I think that is cruel.

I castrate my lambs.

Is that cruel?

I dip my sheep to kill maggots.

you ought to see those maggots writhe in agony !!

That MUST be cruel.

 

[LACS]

"Have you heard a rabbit caught by a Stoat.

Thats cruel !!"

No it's not. It's a stoat killing a rabbit - that's nature. Animals can't be cruel, only humans can.

Chasing a stag for eight hours to the point of exhaustion and then killing it isn't "natural". It's an artificial, man-made entertainment devised to give people like you gratification. But at least you have the honesty (albeit arrogant honesty) to concede that it's cruel.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

What about searching for animals with a dog, is that cruel?

 

[LACS]

Depends.

 

[Hercules]

What does it depend upon? Whether or not you shoot the animal at the end of the search?

You aren't really sure, are you?

 

[LACS]

I'd need a little more to go on. Describe the scenario in slightly more detail.

 

[Hercules]

A man on horseback directs his 2 hounds to flush a fox with the intent to have the fox shot.

 

[LACS]

I think that's allowed under the Act under certain circumstances. As to whether it's cruel or not: depends on how long the hounds chase the fox. In the Wright case for example the judge, I believe, thought that the guns didn't shoot the fox as soon as they could. In these sort of circumstances, yes, I believe there can be unnecessary suffering.

 

[Hercules]

At what stage does 'the chase' become cruel and cause unnecessary suffering?

Is it when the fox escapes or when it is shot?

 

[brighteyes]

Might I interrupt? Does 'necessary' come into the argument at all? Oops - should be quicker with my posts - see that it does!!!

 

[LACS]

I think it's a matter of common sense, old chap. For example, if the stag is chased for eight hours, it's probably cruel.

 

[Hercules]

Who is the judge of common sense?

''if the stag is chased for eight hours, it's probably cruel. ''

So not definitely cruel, then?

 

[LACS]

Ultimately the judge is the judge.

Well, Tom says it's cruel, so let's be devils and say: yes, definitely cruel.

 

[Hercules]

When do you consider that hunting with dogs not cruel?