Question about condition & muscle

Armas

Armas

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As winter approaches how does your feeding regime change ? Armas has plenty of lush grass during the day and of an evening he has a mixture of fresh Alfalfa & hay enough for the whole night as he is stabled from 8pm till the sun rises. I also give him 4 kg of hard food spread over the day he also has a hand full of garlic chips & 120 grams of winter glow summer sun.
What do you think of his condition ? These were taken yesterday.

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Cortez said:
Honestly? For a Spanish horse, I'd like to see him rounder and with a bit more condition.
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Ditto... he's got very little in reserve. I don't like to see horses fat, but bearing in mind that he is not in hard work (competing at a high level/hunting sort of thing) he's looking very lean.
 
It would be easier to see the horses condition if he was stood up without tack or rider.

From those pics his condition looks fine but its hard to judge his muscle. His head looks arched in all the pics, but it doesn't look like a proper outline.Apart from the galloping one (where I'm guessing the reins are a little long, resulting in rider bringing hands back and wide to maintain a contact), it looks like the outline may be the result of the rider hanging onto his head rather than because he has a good top line. Muscle along the top line comes from schooling not food. Though if a horse doesn't get enough food the body will lose excess fat then lose muscle too.

Is the horse a good do-er or a poor do-er? If he holds his weight well I'd wait for him to start to lose some before increasing the food. If he is a poor do-er its better to keep a close eye on weather conditions and state of grazing to ensure horse doesn't lose any weight, because once its gone its hard to get back during winter in this type of horse.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
It would be easier to see the horses condition if he was stood up without tack or rider.

From those pics his condition looks fine but its hard to judge his muscle. His head looks arched in all the pics, but it doesn't look like a proper outline.Apart from the galloping one (where I'm guessing the reins are a little long, resulting in rider bringing hands back and wide to maintain a contact), it looks like the outline may be the result of the rider hanging onto his head rather than because he has a good top line. Muscle along the top line comes from schooling not food. Though if a horse doesn't get enough food the body will lose excess fat then lose muscle too.

Is the horse a good do-er or a poor do-er? If he holds his weight well I'd wait for him to start to lose some before increasing the food. If he is a poor do-er its better to keep a close eye on weather conditions and state of grazing to ensure horse doesn't lose any weight, because once its gone its hard to get back during winter in this type of horse.
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"This type of horse" is usually a ridiculously good doer (I won't embarass them by saying "fatty"), so this kind of "ripped" condition at this time of year would concern me if it was mine.....
 
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You misunderstand me. I meant a poor do-er when I said "this type of horse". I have no idea what breed OPs horse is or what work they do with it. It was a general comment, the OP wanted advice on when/if to increase food, I thought. I don't mind seeing a lean horse and I find horses with no muscle on the top line due to the way they're worked tend to look scrawny unless they're a bit overweight. If its the same breed as the horse in your pic Cortex, then I agree the OPs horse doesn't want to lose any more weight over winter.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
You misunderstand me. I meant a poor do-er when I said "this type of horse". I have no idea what breed OPs horse is or what work they do with it. It was a general comment, the OP wanted advice on when/if to increase food, I thought. I don't mind seeing a lean horse and I find horses with no muscle on the top line due to the way they're worked tend to look scrawny unless they're a bit overweight. If its the same breed as the horse in your pic Cortex, then I agree the OPs horse doesn't want to lose any more weight over winter.
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It is the same breed, PRE/Spanish purebred. They are emphatically NOT poor doers!
 
Weight-wise, I think he is in good healthy condition and I must say it is nice to see a Spanish horse who is not rippling with fat! But if he is on lush grass now, then steps need to be taken to ensure he doesn't lose weight when the grass deteriorates as we go into winter.
 
Looks good to me:-) mabye a tiny bit more weight but not much more. Just keep an eye to ensure no weight is lost coming into winter, lovely horse.
 
TGM said:
Weight-wise, I think he is in good healthy condition and I must say it is nice to see a Spanish horse who is not rippling with fat! But if he is on lush grass now, then steps need to be taken to ensure he doesn't lose weight when the grass deteriorates as we go into winter.
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My aim is not for him to drop condition hence the reason I posted what I am feeding him in my first post.
He has as much hay as he can eat also a couple of slices of fresh alfalfa plus his hard food. If you shows any signs of loosing weight I will be increasing the hard feed.

He has just turned 8

Did you watch the video of him running free ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orqfZ...3&feature=plcp
 
yes I saw the video when you put it up before, he is a really nice looking horse but does look like a youngster and I think its due to lack of muscle/topline. I would not want to see loads more weight on him but for him to build muscle and topline he needs some reserves.

I was worried about my daughters mares weight last winter (too fat) so I worked really hard to get the weight of her and get rid of her belly, it was not until I rode her that it really dawned on me she had lost too much, she had no neck, shoulders or belly, we have increased her weight and she looks soo much better as her topline is increasing all the time.

I dont believe in using hard feed to increase weight if you cannot increase it with hay or similar I would say it indicates a problem.

is he stressy?
 
OP I think your horse looks fine but lacking in topline that's all. If the horse is on lush grass and ad lib hay/alfalfa and looks like this at the end of summer, then I have to disagree with Cortez and say that perhaps you have the exception to the rule (a poor do-er PRE). Or perhaps you work him really hard in your lessons/hacks and he needs more food, or perhaps he has worms, or perhaps he has sharp teeth, or some other veterinary problem I'm not going to guess at. There, I think that covers everything. :) Anyway, he's lovely, but doesn't want to be any thinner. The black one wants liposuction though :p .
 
He's absolutely lovely - and note I said lean, not thin. As I said earlier, he's run up a bit light for a horse who isn't in hard work. You're in the fitness business - so you will understand what I mean by hard work. It's the difference between someone who is in training for the Marathon Des Sables, as opposed to a 5k in the local park.
He's obviously a buzzy energetic horse, who burns off a lot just blasting around, and he looks quite stressy in his ridden work, which will also contribute to him being lean. He looks to be in a lovely healthy condition, but I think (and you obviously do too, as you posted!) that you need to be careful that he doesn't tip over to the skinny side as the goodness goes out of the grass.
 
Sorry - back again!
I've been looking at his facebook page, and in the photos dated 25th September, he does look too thin- and I'm guessing that's what made you start thinking about his condition. If you compare with the pics of him still in Spain, he was carrying a greater amount of condition, but still wasn't fat. Would be good to strike a happy medium between the two.
 
TGM said:
Weight-wise, I think he is in good healthy condition and I must say it is nice to see a Spanish horse who is not rippling with fat! But if he is on lush grass now, then steps need to be taken to ensure he doesn't lose weight when the grass deteriorates as we go into winter.
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Auslander said:
He's absolutely lovely - and note I said lean, not thin. As I said earlier, he's run up a bit light for a horse who isn't in hard work. You're in the fitness business - so you will understand what I mean by hard work. It's the difference between someone who is in training for the Marathon Des Sables, as opposed to a 5k in the local park.
He's obviously a buzzy energetic horse, who burns off a lot just blasting around, and he looks quite stressy in his ridden work, which will also contribute to him being lean. He looks to be in a lovely healthy condition, but I think (and you obviously do too, as you posted!) that you need to be careful that he doesn't tip over to the skinny side as the goodness goes out of the grass.
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Average hack is 15 to 20k with plenty of trotting and lots of very long gallops and boy does he have a lick on him !
He was skinny this summer as he was boarding at a riding school and he lost a lot of weight I was not happy. Since he has been home I have been working hard for him to increase his weight slowly as sudden weight gain is unhealthy imo.
I consider his weight almost where I want it to be.

He always has access to hay when ever he wants it but when he is out during the day he will only eat the grass and turns his nose up at hay.
 
Horses in Spain (PRE's) are usually in very good nick; round, well covered, not fat, with excellent top line and quarter muscles. I believe this is because they are not only properly (not overly) fed, but also intelligently worked.
 
I hate to see fat horses, I think he looks fine and he clearly enjoys life. My friend has a Pre and its just fat, he looks like he is a fit horse . Keep up the good work. Oh he is stunning by the way.
 
Armas said:
He works hard 3 flat lessons a week and one jumping. I also hack him out for a few hrs as well.
This may show his condition a bit better.

This video is of him this week running around

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orqfZM8HH9Y&list=UUPgvUNwYGjrnXaseDHiZy_A&index=3&feature=plcp






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Aw did you get him that pony for a companion, or is that the one that left?

Condition wise, I think her is a little underweight for his type. The young rider also needs to give him more rein over the jumps.
 
Wagtail said:
Aw did you get him that pony for a companion, or is that the one that left?

Condition wise, I think her is a little underweight for his type. The young rider also needs to give him more rein over the jumps.
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Yep the pony is his new stallion buddy who will soon be for the chop ! And Armas is a he :o
 
madmav said:
Is that your house in the video? Can I marry you? Horse and house and both well gorgeous.
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Its mine and my partners house sorry to disappoint :)
Interesting that you list your location as North London I am a North Londoner as well when I am not in France !
 
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