Question about insurance please??? Help!!!

jadelovescassie

jadelovescassie

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This is a slightly complicated situation but I would really appreciate any help...I am only 19, don't have a horsey family (they see my pony as a bit of an inconvenience) and I have not got a clue what to do about this situation if I am honest :confused: ...worried I won't be taken seriously. Sorry this is so long and thank you if you take the time to read and help me with this...

Cass is 15yr old mare on loan to me and has been for nearly 5 years now, and her owner is meant to insure her but I'm getting slightly suspicious that is not the case and she hasn't been insured at all. When trying to make a claim via the owner in the past there has always been an excuse as to why they won't pay out but we have only needed the vet a couple of times for Cassie in the past so we shrugged it off (maybe naive and stupid of me) and didn't really consider that she may not be actually insuring her. I cannot speak to the insurance company myself, they won't tell me if she is on the system or not because it's recorded in the owners name, and not mine. On our loan agreement it states 'The owner is responsible for keeping the horse and all equipment supplied and detailed in this agreement insured' and also says 'Any excess costs due to insurance claims are to be met by the owner.' However it also states 'The loaner is responsible for the daily care and well being of the horse at all times at her own expense.'

In the last few weeks Cassie has been under veterinary care due to laminitis/infection and problems with the pedal bone...obviously not something to be taken lightly, something that needs the care of a vet immediately...a horse cannot be left in pain. I have kept the owner informed of the situation at all times, telling her when the vet has been out and what he has said and suggested. Cassie has in the last few days deteriorated and gone into the vets to have x-rays for a few days. I have again, kept the owner informed and she has not said to me not to get the vet, and to stop the treatment, so is that taken as her giving permission for the vet to go ahead and do what he needs to do? I'm not sure. The vet told me I should think about making a claim asap so I got hold of her and she said she would ring insurance the next day. I didn't hear back from her until contacting her again when she said, and I quote, "its not good news on the insurance hun...they stopped insuring her when she turned 15 as shes classed as old an its a different type of cover an they dont do it an didnt tell me!!!!!". When I spoke to nfu, who the owner apparently made a claim with when Cassie was 4, they said they can't tell me if she is on the system, but they would never just stop insuring the horse, the cover doesn't change until the horse is 16 and they do offer a veteran insurance plan.

The owner is not a horrible person, we have always got on and she has always been very nice to me. I know some people will criticise and say I should not have a horse if I cannot afford to pay for it, but we simply cannot afford thousands in vets fees. The owner has only visited Cassie once or twice in the 5 years I've had her and I really do think of her as my own, she is even meant to be signed over to me for my 21st birthday by the owner. I'd like to try and resolve the situation without conflict with the owner as I am so scared of the pony I have grown up with and become very attached to being taken away from me. I am confused as to who is legally responsible in paying for these vets bills??? If the owner is then I am not sure how to deal with this without causing a drama, she has already told me money is tight for her at the moment. At the same time I cannot just leave this horse to suffer. We would pay what we can, we have always paid Cassies vets fees in the past and never had a problem with it but we're talking thousands of pounds we don't have here. :(

Again thank you for reading and if you have any advice or help to offer, then I would appreciate it.
 
This is a horrid situation for both you and Cassie. I have got a nasty feeling that if Cassie is uninsured, and the owner unable to pay - then you are going to have to make a decision on whether you fund her treatment yourself. Obviously she will be uninsurable for this condition in the future but you might want to look into insuring her for other conditions etc. If you are a member of BHS, or you have a friend who is, then please phone their legal helpline for advice.
 
Don't panic. It's horrible, and insurance companies are a pita to deal with at the best of times. I would say from what you have said that the onus is on the owner to ensure her horse is insured, and to be sure of what it is insured for. Whatever she says the insurance company WILL have told her what her policy covers, somewhere, and any changes to it. Whether she has taken note of this is another matter. They legally (i believe) have to inform the policyholder of any changes. Can you ask the owner to arrange with her insurance company so that they will speak with you, i have had to do this when the policy has been in my parents name but i have been the main carer for the horse, i think they made a note of my name on the system and gave me a password to give them. At the end of the day if it turns out she is uninsured, it will have to fall to you and the owner to decide who pays what and how, but that may come down to what your loan agreement says about vets bills. Fingers crossed it doesn't come to that, and good luck with it all, i hope she makes a speedy recovery.
 
What a horrid situation the owner has been unfair by not giving you the opportunity to take out insurance to cover any vets bills.
I would contact you vet and explain what the situation is, they should at least stop doing any tests that are not vital I dont mean not treating but they often do numerous x-rays when the insurance is footing the bill.
Get her home ASAP to continue her care at less expense than in the vets.

Arrange to pay in instalments, the owner should be putting some in also, it is her mistake that is costing you now.
 
Insurers would never simply stop the cover without telling the insured. Just wouldn't happen. So that's a lie. If they did do that, she can report them to the FSA.

It's possible that she doesn't have insurance. It's also possible that she does have insurance, but she's trying to make sure that the premiums don't rise and that she doesn't have to pay any excess by telling you that the insurance has lapsed.

If there's no insurance in place, then I guess it comes down to the contract. If I were you, I would explain the situation to the vets: tell them that the horse is not yours, that the owner is responsible for keeping the animal insured (a copy of which you can produce if needs be), and that they should contact her to arrange payment. It's certainly worth a try, before having to go down the legal route. Then the dispute become between the vet and the owner (which is where it should be) and not with the vet and you.

Hope it works out x
 
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AMH said:
Insurers would never simply stop the cover without telling the insured. Just wouldn't happen. So that's a lie. If they did do that, she can report them to the FSA.

It's possible that she doesn't have insurance. It's also possible that she does have insurance, but she's trying to make sure that the premiums don't rise and that she doesn't have to pay any excess by telling you that the insurance has lapsed.

If there's no insurance in place, then I guess it comes down to the contract. If I were you, I would explain the situation to the vets: tell them that the horse is not yours, that the owner is responsible for keeping the animal insured (a copy of which you can produce if needs be), and that they should contact her to arrange payment. It's certainly worth a try, before having to go down the legal route. Then the dispute become between the vet and the owner (which is where it should be) and not with the vet and you.

Hope it works out x
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Well I feel terribble about this. if you have a contract saying that the owner will pay well I would tell her to get her cheque book out
xxx
 
It looks as if this horse is not insured.
You should contact the vets asap, explain the position and advise them that you are on a limited budget. Request details of the costs incurred to date and ask for an estimate of future costs.
I should also contact the owner and advise her that you will struggle to pay for this treatment. Mention that as it was her responsibility to insure the horse and she has not you would expect her to make a substantial contribution towards the cost of treatment.
 
Thanks for your replies...I'm 90% sure in my head that she couldn't have been insured at all. As mentioned yes they legally do have to inform the policy holder of any changes and that is exactly what the insurance company who I phoned yesterday told me. Life would be so much easier if they could just tell me if Cassie was on their system and then I would have the proof!!!

I am receiving a call from my vet tomorrow so will mention the issues with insurance and payment then, have just been to visit Cassie at the surgery but my vet was on a call out. Luckily she is coming home on Sunday. I think they will be happy to let me pay in instalments as I'm sure we have done this in the past. However, we're talking a lot more money than past bills.

Not sure how to handle contacting the owner? In an ideal world the vets bills would be sent straight to her but I feel it would be a bit sly and rude to do that without really speaking to her about it first. I feel like I'm treading on eggshells with what I say and how I word it, as the last thing I would want would be for her to get defensive about the payment situation.

charmeroo - I think I will phone the BHS and see what they advise.
 
Well quite simply these fees are down to the owner.

You have three choices.

1. Ask owner to sign the horse over to you immediately. That way you have full control of the situation;

2. She pays the vet direct;

3. You call her bluff and tell her you are giving notice on the agreement and wish to return the horse.
 
If this horse is insured only the owner can make a claim as policy holder. If she refuses to do so you are stuck. The vets will not wish to get involved in your dispute with the owner. You are their client and they will expect you to settle the bills that you have run up. You must tackle the owner and sort this out because treating this sort of problem could be very expensive.
 
I have sent the owner a simple message saying 'I will speak to my vet about the lack of insurance but I think we will have to come to some sort of agreement on the payment.' - My vet is phoning me tomorrow and I will discuss it with him then.
 
Sorry I am re-visiting this post in the hope of a bit more advice.

I have tried suggesting me and owner come to agreement about the payment together. After sending the owner 2 messages, both with no reply, am I well within my rights to get the vets to bill directly to her?

And if she chooses to ignore the bill (which could be very likely) I know it is going to fall back onto me. Am I then within my rights to take this to a small claims?

What I feel like saying to her is knock off the value of Cassie from the vets bills, sign her over to me. We will pay the amount to the value of the horse and she can pay the rest.
 
jadelovescassie said:
Sorry I am re-visiting this post in the hope of a bit more advice.

I have tried suggesting me and owner come to agreement about the payment together. After sending the owner 2 messages, both with no reply, am I well within my rights to get the vets to bill directly to her?

And if she chooses to ignore the bill (which could be very likely) I know it is going to fall back onto me. Am I then within my rights to take this to a small claims?

What I feel like saying to her is knock off the value of Cassie from the vets bills, sign her over to me. We will pay the amount to the value of the horse and she can pay the rest.
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You need to pick up the phone and speak to her. Texting in these situations is no good.

I doubt the vets will bill her direct, as you are the customer.

I would offer no money at all for the horse, just get it signed over to you.
 
I'm afraid this sounds to me like one of those rock and hard place situations. For whatever reason there doesn't appear to be any insurance in place and the owner doesn't want to take responsibility for the problem so knowing you care about tim horse she's just going to ignore you in the hope that you'll feel you have to do the right thing for the horse. If this is the case I seriously doubt you'll be able to raise the owner on the phone anyway.

I'd be inclined to keep all communication from owner regarding the insurance and vet bills and write them a letter sent by recorded delivery stating the terms of the agreement and including a detailed list of all messages about the horse asking them to either live up to the contract or sign the animal over to you (if this is what you want) before you'll be willing to pay the vet bills. I'd include copies of all vet bills you've paid so far too.

If you want to be really difficult here you could also give whatever your required notice is to return the horse to force the owner's hand. I'm not suggesting this is the right thing to do before anyone shoots me down here but it may get a reaction if all else fails. Of course it may not be the reaction you want so if you do it be prepared to go through with it.

I also wouldn't offer any money for the horse, if you're stuck with the vet bills and it was going to be signed over to you anyway there's no need.

If there is no insurance on the horse it is a bit of a dirty trick not telling you so that you had the option to buy your own cover though.

Good luck getting it sorted and I hope the horse comes right for you soon. x
 
If the owner said she was responsible for insuring the horse then she is taking responsibility for all vet fees, whether they can be claimed through insurance or not.

The only thing I could suggest is saying to her that you had an agreement she would insure the horse, you sought treatment on the understanding insurance was in place, she has broken her contract (by not insuring) therefore if you have to settle the vets bill you will take her to small claims court to recover the costs.
 
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