Question for British Sport Horse/Warmblood breeders

[Eothain]

Here's a question for our British colleagues: Do you consider Billy Congo (Vechta x Animo x Clover Hill) to be a British bred horse?

I certainly consider him British. Despite his Continental and Irish roots, he was foaled in Britain, registered to a British studbook and competes for Britain.

His lineage has served Team GB well in it's own right. Vechta was ridden quite successfully by Will Funnell and Animo has sired horses like Animation, who is a Hickstead Derby regular at this stage!!! Then there's Clover Hill, rumour has it, if you can believe rumours, that he sired one or two pretty decent horses himself including Gerry Maguire, who was ridden as you are all aware in the past by a chap by the name of Robert Smith.

Thankfully, from my perspective, he's now available by ai in Ireland and as he's approved by the AES, he's automatically approved by the new SIES. How exciting!

So, do you consider him British?

 

[LynneB]

to me if a horse is foaled in Britain then yes, he is British. Refreshing too to see people using a British studbook for their foals

Having had this debate elsewhere though, not everyone agrees lol

 

[Maesfen]

I have to be honest and say I still regard all warmbloods as foreigners wherever they are born and that is mostly based on the fact that even if born in this country, people still insist on registering it with a foreign stud book in the mistaken belief that is better. Those that are registered as British born I will accept as British.
But, until every foal foaled in Britain is obliged by regulation (as Weatherbys do) to register with a British society as the country of birth, then I will always consider those that don't, as foreigners. They cant have their cake and eat it too, that's unfair and it's the British registeries, our reputations as breeders of excellent stock and revenue that are losing out.
Sorry, it is a soapbox subject of mine!

 

[Simsar]

I have to be honest and say I still regard all warmbloods as foreigners wherever they are born and that is mostly based on the fact that even if born in this country, people still insist on registering it with a foreign stud book in the mistaken belief that is better. Those that are registered as British born I will accept as British.
But, until every foal foaled in Britain is obliged by regulation (as Weatherbys do) to register with a British society as the country of birth, then I will always consider those that don't, as foreigners. They cant have their cake and eat it too, that's unfair and it's the British registeries, our reputations as breeders of excellent stock and revenue that are losing out.
Sorry, it is a soapbox subject of mine!

Goodness Pat is good isn't she SPOT ON Pat! Sarah. xxxxx

As Simon said in another post LOL! I passed william on Billy Congo? A black horse anyway! He called it a hi-bred is that correct?

 

[Maesfen]

You trying to butter me up Sarah, lol?!

Sorry, Eothain, forgot to answer the base question although I suppose I did in a way.
If he was born here, has got a British passport, not just overstamped, then he's British bred and I'm proud of him.

 

[Eothain]

Hybrid or hi-bred, regardless! He's the result of a breeding decision made by British breeders and registered in a British studbook. Surely then, he becomes more acceptable to non-warmblood fans than most stallions!!!

Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno. You tell me!

 

[Simsar]

You trying to butter me up Sarah, lol?!

Sorry, Eothain, forgot to answer the base question although I suppose I did in a way.
If he was born here, has got a British passport, not just overstamped, then he's British bred

OH Pat you make me laugh and Yes I am! LOL

Ditto above again what Pat said ! Still buttering. x

 

[eventrider23]

If bred and foaled in Britain then yes - British Bred! Even those registered with foreign passports will always have listed on passport: Country of Birth: UK

 

[Simsar]

Hybrid or hi-bred, regardless! He's the result of a breeding decision made by British breeders and registered in a British studbook. Surely then, he becomes more acceptable to non-warmblood fans than most stallions!!!

Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno. You tell me!

See don't even know how to spell it because it something I'm not into sorry for being dim!

But yes British bred. Can you tell I hate saying that. For everyone else that doesn't know us ( we are verble enough you should do!) Pat no comment! Before you jump on me its a standing joke on here we don't like foreign horses. x

 

[Faberge]

Sorry, slightly off topic...

I think the reason people sill prefer to register with big foreign studbooks like the KWPN is because a horse registered with them can be presented to UK warmblood/sporthorse studbooks and breed societies, but not the other way round. So you could argue that foreign passports offer more options than British ones.

 

[Maesfen]

Sorry, slightly off topic...

I think the reason people sill prefer to register with big foreign studbooks like the KWPN is because a horse registered with them can be presented to UK warmblood/sporthorse studbooks and breed societies, but not the other way round. So you could argue that foreign passports offer more options than British ones.

How strange but what about the TBs that have been accepted into foreign studbooks, they would have British passports? They can't accept to suit themselves and surely EU regulations are meant to be fair trade either way, how can they flaunt that? It's something that should be looked at and sorted as that is grossly unfair.

Sorry Eothain, will shut up now.

 

[Eothain]

I think it's great that he is registered with the AES. I, for one, would love to see that emerge as a big powerful studbook in the future. There's nothing like a bit of competition.
There's a lot of similarties between breeding in Ireland and breeding in Britain at the moment.

Another question though; Is there a lack of faith by British sports breeders in the British studbooks?

***Edit***

No need to shut up. On the contrary. This is a chance for British breeders to have a thought provoking thread like what we have in the ISH breeders thread. If, after this thread finishes, some people are inspired in to British studbook registration, then Happy Days for British breeders!!!

 

[Faberge]

How strange but what about the TBs that have been accepted into foreign studbooks, they would have British passports?

Sorry I don't know much about TB breeding so was just talking about Warmbloods

 

[Eothain]

I just realised, the great news for Simsar is that now because he's passed the birth/registration/competition test; It's ok for you to use the stallion 'down the road', Billy Congo!!!

 

[jamesmead]

I think a lot is actually about how committed the owners are; plenty of horses that are very much on the British scene, owned by people based in Britain; maybe stallions at stud here, based here themselves, maybe competing here, not restricted to continental mares but available to all comers, seem British enough to me in the wider sense of the term though they may be warmblood in breeding or even bred on the continent.

 

[GinnieRedwings]

So, do you consider him British?

Please don't shoot me down... but

Does it matter? A good horse is a good horse is a good horse - no matter what breed, colour and certainly no matter what nationality?

 

[Flyingbuck]

Please don't shoot me down... but

Does it matter? A good horse is a good horse is a good horse - no matter what breed, colour and certainly no matter what nationality?

Well put

 

[LynneB]

it should not matter, but sadly it still does to some. There are many on the continent and in this country who will bypass a horse with a British Studbook Passport in favour of one with KWPN papers etc. Until people stop thinking a foreign passport makes a horse more worthy, it will continue to matter.

The thing is to get more people aware of the great foals being bred in this country....slightly off topic though - even further off topic is the lack of advertising for offspring of British based stallions..how many websites do you visit for stallions where there is no hint of a photo of a foal

 

[Touchwood]

What people also don't seem to realise is that as well as the fact registering with a foreign studbook 'confusing' the origin of the horse, it also takes valuable and much needed revenue away from the breeding industry in the UK. Why we want to swell the coffers of all the foreign studbooks is beyond me. Our studbooks are making great strides in tightening up....SHB(GB) only graded 2 stallions presented at their recent grading, they are making a big effort to up standards. At the WBB(UK) stallion grading, the stallions graded certainly would not look out of place at a foreign warmblood grading, indeed one of the judges made the comment that they would have licensed in Germany. So our standards are not lower, but we do need to support these studbooks to enable them to keep improving.

 

[GinnieRedwings]

Well, Touchwood, you will be pleased to hear that although I'm French, my broodmare is Irish and the stallion is German, I will be registering my beautiful colt with the BRITISH Hanoverian Horse Society

 

[Eothain]

Why not the AES?

 

[LynneB]

why the AES?

 

[Eothain]

Because when I think of a British studbook, the AES is the first one I think of.

How many different Sports studbooks is there over yonder?

 

[crellow4]

I have a colt foal out of a Belgian warmblood mare by Update who I understand could be registered as a KWPN. I have decided to register him with AES partly to acknowledge the fact that he is British bred and partly because it is a much cheaper and simpler option.

 

[ruby1]

I didn't think of AES as a British Studbook but then perhaps i just don't know any better. Our older mare is registered SHB(GB) and our filly is registered SSH( Scottish Sport Horse). Hopefully we will have two foals to register next year if things go to plan and they will definately hold British passports though will most likely be SSH and overstamped any others we may need.
I think for the future of the British Breeding market then we should register with home studbooks.

 

[LynneB]

Not sure how many, I always think of showjumpers and some stallions going to the AES. My foals have always been registered with the British Warmblood Society. There is also the SHBGB. I think from listening to people on the forums for a long while now, it seems that some British studbooks need to up their game when it comes to stallion gradings and be as picky as the German ones. Having said that though, there has been a lot more positive responses re them over the past year, so it seems that is happening.

 

[Simsar]

I just realised, the great news for Simsar is that now because he's passed the birth/registration/competition test; It's ok for you to use the stallion 'down the road', Billy Congo!!!

NO NO NO!

 

[Simsar]

Please don't shoot me down... but

Does it matter? A good horse is a good horse is a good horse - no matter what breed, colour and certainly no matter what nationality?

Right where is the sawn off! LOL only joking! Its all about numbers and us British want recognition!

 

[Eothain]

If you get a nice Billy Congo filly next year, pm me. I might even buy it!!!

I'm so happy for you now that you're allowed to use him

 

[Simsar]

What???????????????????????????