Question for you towing experts....

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dancingkris

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Hoping one of you knowledgeable people on here can help.

I have a milestone birthday coming up later this year and husband has agreed to buying me some transport so I can get out and about. I passed my test a week late to have the automatic right to drive anything upto 7.5t (very frustrating!) so thought my only options on my licence would be a 3.5t box unless I took the trailer test.

However a friend of mine who is considerably younger and passed her test a year or so ago has just bought a Santa Fe and a Cheval Liberte Gold one horse trailer and is driving/towing on the same licence I have. I have a 16hh TB who weighs around 525kg - she's towing a similar sized horse. The car model is the 2.2l diesel CRTD and the trailer has an unladen weight of 650kgs/gross weight 1600kgs.

Can one of you please tell me if this is actually do-able and within the law on my licence - I am excited if it is but something tells me it can't be! Thanks
 
ROG is an expert of this type of info, hopefully he will see your question and give you an answer. I tow an Ifor Williams with a Kia Sorrento effortlessly. Not too sure I would like the confinement of a single horse trailer, having said that Ive never seen one, just thinking of it from a horses view point.
 
We have been looking into this today. Let me try and get this right... you can tow up to 3.5 ton combined weight of vehicle and the trailer. the vehicle must be heavier that the MAM of the trailer but still within the 3.5ton. In addition both MAM should not exceed 3.5ton! I'm sure someone will let me know if I'm wrong!
 
I could be wrong but she is breaking the law! Yes she can tow up to 750kg unbraked trailer but stick a horse in it and the weight of the vehicle and tack etc she's way over weight!

The instructir I did my trailer training with said that on a modern license you can effectively only tow one of those utility trailers for visiting the dump type things that anyone can buy from halfords.
 
P4NN said:
I could be wrong but she is breaking the law! Yes she can tow up to 750kg unbraked trailer but stick a horse in it and the weight of the vehicle and tack etc she's way over weight!

The instructir I did my trailer training with said that on a modern license you can effectively only tow one of those utility trailers for visiting the dump type things that anyone can buy from halfords.
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They changed the rules. You can now tow a trailer over 750kg on a b licence as long as the total combined mam of both is less than 3500kg. The mam of trailer is less than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle. The trailer has been down plated if needed and has a plate showing this.

When I was searching for a tow vehicle and trailer I found the santa fe's too heavy. I tow with a x trail and a cheval trailer and even with my trailer downplated to a mam of 1400 kg I still have plenty to spare as I only had a welsh section c.
 
Thanks for your replies. It is so confusing! I always thought that basically it was the weight of the car plus the trailer plus the load I.e horse, tack, fuel etc had to be 3.5t or less for it to be legal. Anything over and you have to have an additional 'entitlement' on your licence. I would be delighted to be proved wrong - I need to change my car soon and if I could find one capable of towing a trailer (and horse) it would be so much easier than paying out for a box and two sets of costs to keep two vehicles on the road. Hopefully someone can confirm.....Rog where are you?!
 
Rules state that you can tow a vehicle/trailer combo of up to 3.5 tonne IF the car is heavier than the trailer.

So that's a car weighing 1751kg and horse and trailer weighing 1749kg. Doable but difficult. Esp as, when the police stop you, it's the plated weight they check, not by weighing the actual trailer.

Just do the test! It's well worth it!
 
If you get pulled by the police and vosa and they think you are driving not in accordance with your licence they will weigh you, they are checking now as horse trailers are proving to be an easy target.

To give you a rough idea to go on you will need a car that is around 1500kg empty ( kerb weight ) with a mam ( max loaded weight ) of around 2000kg. This then leaves a mam of around 1450kg for your trailer and horse to weigh. So if your horse weighs 500kg then you need a trailer weighing no more than 900kg empty. The bigger your horse the harder it is, and the mam also has to include any bedding, hay in the trailer and the clothes your horse wears.
 
dancingkris said:
Hoping one of you knowledgeable people on here can help.

I have a milestone birthday coming up later this year and husband has agreed to buying me some transport so I can get out and about. I passed my test a week late to have the automatic right to drive anything upto 7.5t (very frustrating!) so thought my only options on my licence would be a 3.5t box unless I took the trailer test.

However a friend of mine who is considerably younger and passed her test a year or so ago has just bought a Santa Fe and a Cheval Liberte Gold one horse trailer and is driving/towing on the same licence I have. I have a 16hh TB who weighs around 525kg - she's towing a similar sized horse. The car model is the 2.2l diesel CRTD and the trailer has an unladen weight of 650kgs/gross weight 1600kgs.

Can one of you please tell me if this is actually do-able and within the law on my licence - I am excited if it is but something tells me it can't be! Thanks
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ILLEGAL on a B licence with that vehicle because it has a GVW around 2600 kg leaving 900 kg plated MAM weight for a trailer = no horse trailer possible on a B licence

I have a sense that your friend is using actual weights to determine that they are under 3500 kg instead of the total of the plated weights as the law states

For B licence towing there is one extra law on top of all the other towing laws and that is .....
The GVW of the vehicle added to the trailer plated MAM must not total more than 3500 kg
OR - the max the vehicle can legally weigh when fully loaded added to the max the trailer can legally weigh when fully loaded must not total more than 3500 kg

It is easily possible to legally tow one horse on a B licence ....... here is one example -
Skoda Octavia 4x4
GVW 2000
Towing capacity 1800

Ifor HB401 trailer
Empty 780
Plated MAM 1600 but down plated via manufacturer to 1500
Max load after down plating = 720 kg

2000+1500=3500
 
The Honda CRV 4x4 with a GVW at 2100 and a towing capacity of 1500 is another B towing option as it leaves 1400 for the trailer MAM

The Cheval Liberte single horse trailer is plated at 1400 so would not need down plating for B towing with that vehicle

Easy to down plate a trailer as long as the manufacturer is still trading

Finding the right towing vehicle with a lowish GVW is a key first step to B towing

I have instant Email alert set up for the HHO TOWING CLINIC link in my signature below
 
Thanks so much for your help! It's definitely given me a few ideas so I'll be able to start car shopping. Although not the greatest news for my friend who I think has used the actual weights rather than plated. It's good to know that it is achievable however - thanks again!
 
dancingkris said:
Thanks so much for your help! It's definitely given me a few ideas so I'll be able to start car shopping. Although not the greatest news for my friend who I think has used the actual weights rather than plated. It's good to know that it is achievable however - thanks again!
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I should warn your friend as they are starting a campaign of checks. The towing vehicles MAM is usually considerably more than its kerbside weight which is basically its unladen weight. It catches a lot out with the towing laws.,as they get wrapped up in the trailers MAM but forget about the towing vehicle.
 
It is possible you friend has read the online DVLA/GOV pages on this issue where they missed out the word MAM or the caveat stating that all weights refer to plated MAMs - I have told the DVLA about this but they refuse to change it !!
 
That's very irresponsible of the DVLA/GOV website especially if the inaccuracies have been highlighted to them. It's confusing enough as it is so you would expect the people who actually make the rules to give out correct information.
 
dancingkris said:
That's very irresponsible of the DVLA/GOV website especially if the inaccuracies have been highlighted to them. It's confusing enough as it is so you would expect the people who actually make the rules to give out correct information.
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If they were done simply and in plain English with realistic examples then I would get bored !!
 
I tow on a B licence and this is my combination. I do have a pony though.

Car -
Ford Focus Estate 2ltr
GVW- 2050kg
Towing capacity - 1500kg

Trailer-
Brand new ifor 401
MAM - downplated to 1400kg
Unladen weight- 750kg( I think!)
Pony - 500kg max (been on weigh bridge)

2050 + 1400 = 3450kg so 50kg under 3.5t

500 + 750 = 1250kg so 250kg to spare
 
holeymoley said:
I tow on a B licence and this is my combination. I do have a pony though.

Car -
Ford Focus Estate 2ltr
GVW- 2050kg
Towing capacity - 1500kg

Trailer-
Brand new ifor 401
MAM - downplated to 1400kg
Unladen weight- 750kg( I think!)
Pony - 500kg max (been on weigh bridge)

2050 + 1400 = 3450kg so 50kg under 3.5t

500 + 750 = 1250kg so 250kg to spare
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Great legal B towing example
 
I know someone who has a b licence but thinks it's legal to tow a trailer (with horses) as long as there is a person sat in the passenger seat with the correct licence....I'm fairly sure this isn't legal but if anyone can confirm/deny that would be appreciated :-) x
 
willowblack said:
I know someone who has a b licence but thinks it's legal to tow a trailer (with horses) as long as there is a person sat in the passenger seat with the correct licence....I'm fairly sure this isn't legal but if anyone can confirm/deny that would be appreciated :-) x
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SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving
 
Don't forget my set up Rog! :D

To the OP, I have a B-license (yep, even though I'm 40 this year, lol)
My car 2.0ltr diesel tdci zetec Ford C-Max estate/MPV (not all the diesel c-max's can tow high weights though) which has a GVW 1990kg + my down plated Ifor 401 is a plated MAM 1500kgs so legal as it adds up to 3490kg.

My car has a capacity of towing 1500kgs so the unladen weight of my Ifor 401 (770kgs) + the weight of my 15.2hh TB (weighed by the Allen & Page lady at 460kg full summer fatness on a portable horse scale), only come to 1230kgs so nowhere near the towing limit of my car.

The single trailers aren't that much narrower than a double 505! I think it works out to only 6" narrower on each side than a 505 so a hose actually has MORE space to spread their legs for balance in the whole of a single ifor than in the divided stall of a double 505. I towed in a sudden storm to my last show and was VERY happy to find how stable my lovely 401 was!
 
OK, so we only just discovered each other MOMENTS ago and haven't officially 'met' yet....but!
I'm LIKING what I'm reading here...I think you need a buddy to come along on fun rides and farm rides and shows and eeeeek! Xxxxx
 
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