Question regarding pedigree

Carrots&Mints

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Just a quick question, if I have a doubt about the Sire of one of my animals (which is passported wpcs) and we get the animal DNA tested and it turns out that the sire isnt the one on the passport - where do we go from there? Who is liable??
 

Equi

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I don't think liable is the right word. You would just get the passport company to change it.
 

Carrots&Mints

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I don't think liable is the right word. You would just get the passport company to change it.

We bought the animal specifically for the bloodlines to breed from, if its not the correct sire the animal is rendered useless in our eyes. Plus the matter of that the breeder has falsified documents to say its one sire when in fact its another.
 

be positive

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We bought the animal specifically for the bloodlines to breed from, if its not the correct sire the animal is rendered useless in our eyes. Plus the matter of that the breeder has falsified documents to say its one sire when in fact its another.

If the breeder owned both stallions then it could be a genuine mistake if both served the mare and they are not sure which one she held to, if not then there should have been a service certificate from the stud which should be correct, I think you need to ask the WPCS about what they would do if the sire was not the one registered, it could prove complicated if your pony is out of a different mare as well which could happen in a big, disorganised stud.
 

Equi

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Is the animal a worthy one anyway? I definitely understand the frustration (my mare was covered one time before coming to me and she came back in season thankfully so covered by my stallion and scan showed a pregnancy that was no older than expected) but if the other stallion is good too I don't think the animal is totally worthless. But I would want a partial refund if you paid for the lines and got lesser ones.
 

Crosshill Pacers

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I work for a breed society & PIO and we have an alarming number of these issues. We compulsarily DNA all registrations to ensure the horses are parentally verified, however the main issue we face is where breeders register a horse late (i.e. at 2 or 3) prior to immediately selling it. The DNA results take 6-8 weeks to return by which time the horse is sold and if there is a problem, all hell can break loose between the parties. We have now stopped sending out late registration passports until horses are parentally verified by the lab however it can still happen with foals. In these cases, as much as we take verbal abuse from horse owners, the matter is between the breeder (and seller) and the buyer.

Sometimes it is a case of mistaking the stallion used on a mare when it comes to completing the paperwork; sometimes there appears to be clear intent.

Once you have the outcome of the DNA test I would suggest contacting the breeder. The PIO should amend the passport with the correct sire and either destroy or file the original (and incorrect) passport. You would then need to come to some sort of agreement with the breeder (hopefully amicably).

Good luck.
 

Carrots&Mints

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I work for a breed society & PIO and we have an alarming number of these issues. We compulsarily DNA all registrations to ensure the horses are parentally verified, however the main issue we face is where breeders register a horse late (i.e. at 2 or 3) prior to immediately selling it. The DNA results take 6-8 weeks to return by which time the horse is sold and if there is a problem, all hell can break loose between the parties. We have now stopped sending out late registration passports until horses are parentally verified by the lab however it can still happen with foals. In these cases, as much as we take verbal abuse from horse owners, the matter is between the breeder (and seller) and the buyer.

Sometimes it is a case of mistaking the stallion used on a mare when it comes to completing the paperwork; sometimes there appears to be clear intent.

Once you have the outcome of the DNA test I would suggest contacting the breeder. The PIO should amend the passport with the correct sire and either destroy or file the original (and incorrect) passport. You would then need to come to some sort of agreement with the breeder (hopefully amicably).

Good luck.

Thanks for that CP, we have our suspicions that the breeder has split a dose of semen that they’ve bought and then used their own stallion on the cover note. We think this because the animal in question looks nothing like the stallion 'used' nor does it look like any of its progeny, but looks hell of a lot like the other stallion in question which we know they bred a foal by the same year as ours. We’ve had this animal since a foal, so was very surprised when it started maturing that it looked nothing like what it ‘should’.

I know it could well possibly be the stallion on its passport but we are 95% sure it’s definitely not, the only way we can verify this is by getting it DNA tested.
 

Crosshill Pacers

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I hope you get to the bottom of it. Just beware the 'looks' thing though.

Last summer I was involved in a matter where Horse A was scanned at a race meeting to find its microchip which didn't match the chip number on its passport. I did an identification using its mark up to find that it didn't match its mark up (star was correct but sock was on wrong hind leg). Chip number in neck matched another horse on the database, Horse B, which was also bred by the breeder (same sex and age but different sire and dam).

Took hair sample from one at track and subsequently one from field (luckily still owned by breeder) and sent both to the lab for confirmation. Seemed clear cut to me that breeder had sold Horse A with Horse B's passport, whilst Horse B was still in the field and Horse A's passport was in his house. I was told that I must have made a mistake when processing the passport applications as foals as Horse A looked very much like the sire on its passport (which actually belonged to Horse B), and nothing like the sire on the passport which actually belonged to it. On that argument I would have had to agree. But I was confident of the situation, which the DNA results subsequently confirmed.

The problem was that the buyer had purchased Horse A because he liked its breeding, however the breeding he liked was actually that of Horse B. Horse A was in fact completely unrelated and although similar in looks to Horse B, essentially the exception to the rule in terms of looking like its actual sire. Owner had spent a great deal of money getting Horse A to that point in its racing career whereas Horse B had been left untouched. As much as he wanted Horse B originally, he agreed to accept a partial refund from breeder and kept Horse A (and eventually had Horse A's passport to go with it).

Looks can be deceiving!
 

be positive

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That would be very naughty, the stallion owner that provided the semen will be interested in the results, if it is by his stallion I think he will be entitled to a second stud fee, it is a shame if this has been done as everyone involved loses out not least the colt who you now feel is useless to you, it is not his fault if he is the result of dodgy dealings.
 
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