Questions for Antis

[Ereiam_jh]

Antis on this site have expressed discontent with the Hunting Act.

Mairi thinks it is crazy

Avalcap opposes the ban

RS thinks that parliament has just signed a blank cheque and it's up to judges to define what the law is - so I suppose the jury's out with him.

I was wondering what you might think would be a sensible law.

As a moderate I've always favoured the Middle Way's proposals which give judges the power to decide what is and would affect far more than hunting.

http://www.foxmanonline.org.uk/ under long term solution - compromise might be a good resource.

 

[Fairynuff]

Okay. I am pro turned anti. I have hunted in the past with enjoyment and now choose not to(although it would be difficult if I did). I see the need for culling foxes AND deer but would prefer to see it done not as a sport. If that is impossible then I could almost agree with it if-1 No stopping. 2 No digging and 3 No terriers. I do not agree with deer hunting as it is done today. A couple of hounds and a marksman is all thats needed Am I being too simplistic? mairi.

 

[Hercules]

''I see the need for culling foxes AND deer but would prefer to see it done not as a sport.''

Why should the fact that people enjoy following hounds on either foot or horseback make the need for culling less acceptable?

If there is a need, there is a need. The fact that people take pleasure from it is irrelevant. What you are proposing is a limit to people's activity, not a prevention of cruelty.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Hold on, actually she's saying she'd prefer it not to be done as a sport. I think Mairi would accept that a sensible law couldn't ban it being done as a sport.

Her views seem to me to be more middle way rather than anti.

 

[wurzel]

"I do not agree with deer hunting as it is done today. A couple of hounds and a marksman is all thats needed Am I being too simplistic? mairi. "

Yes, you are being slightly too simplistic. But at least you are sensible.

The plain facts are... no deer hunting = no deer.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Mairi is one of the few honest and sensible 'antis' on this forum. What's refreshing is that she recognises that the law should only ban what is intended to be banned.

If constantly pointed out the ridiculous things that the law bans, they are ridiculous becauuse no one would say they are cruel. This makes the law both unjust and means that in reality much of it is ignored.

Most antis simply don't care about this or like RS they blatantly lie and pretend they simply don't know what the law bans and doesn't ban and that it's up to a judge to sort out the mess.

Personally I'd rather there wasn't a Hunting Act but if there is one then it either should tightly define what it bans, in which case peoplem could easily get round it, or it should ban cruelty. The Act could have a legal definition of cruelty and the judge would have to decide if people are being cruel.

I'd be intersted to hear from any antis what they would think of such a law.

 

[Fairynuff]

Re the ridiculous things that the law bans- an elderly man went to hospital in Turin this morning to have some tests on his heart carried out. The test was in two parts so he decided to make the most of his day in the city and go ACROSS the road at lunchtime for a meal with his wife.After his meal he left the restaurant to return ACROSS the road for the second part of his test. He collapsed 30 yards from the hospital and the A and E were told immediately in person by the wife. The law states that Hospital Staff including DOCTORS are not allowed to leave the building for any reason whatsoever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! An ambulance was called to travel the 30 yards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!It arrived 15 mins later!!!!!!!!!!! The unfortunate gentleman can now be found in the hospital cooler. I hate to think how the wife and family are .It was stated that there will be an inquest but its not much use for the people involved.
Some laws have to be interpretated using common sense and I can promise you, I wouldve broken that law without thinking twice. This, sadly, did happen today. Mairi- :shocked:

 

[eohippus]

Not really sure of the ins and outs but I agree it does sound ambiguous at present, are they banning it for cruelty? in which case, any hunting no matter how, is cruel, and therefore it is a welfare/humane problem.
Are they banning it as a sport, in which case it is more to do with stopping humans enjoying something rather than the consequenses of the action, ie the kill, therefore it is a moral issue.
Are they banning culling by certain means, ie with dogs, in which case if you were to follow, as a sport of course, a lamper, or someone out to check a snare, would this be ok, or would this still be frowned upon?
Are they saying that it is a traditional sport but with no conservational reasons, therefore, no need for culling at all, it is just a human right?

I have to mention I am not a pro and would not go hunting as I find, personally, the idea of culling something for a fun pasttime unjust, but then I do see that in some cases there is a need to cull, by natural means, ie with a predator the best way for it, rather than an unatural way of snaring and lamping.

I think allowing the judge to take a final decision is not going to work, if you get a judge who is biased or uninformed there will not be a fair judging.

enlighten me

regards
Dawn

edited to take out upperclass, would not like to start a class war

 

[Hercules]

Read the absurd Hunting Act 2004.

The Government think that it is clear.

 

[eohippus]

Have just read it. Seems clear to me? NOT.
seems it is neither a cruelty or a moral law, it is written , to seemingly satisfy the antis, whilst still allowing blood sport and culling to continue.
Ho hum figure that.
So as long as you hunt with permission and with only two dogs and a gun, you can still participate on horse back, Lets hope the lead horseman is a good shot then?
Oh well
regards
Dawn

 

[mrdarcy]

I agree 100% with Mairi. I've also hunted in the past but wouldn't do so now. And even if I wanted to shoot anything I couldn't - I'm the worst shot on the planet, those darned clay pigeons were way too crafty for me!